réduction de forcenés

English translation: neutralization of armed and dangerous individuals

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:réduction de forcenés
English translation:neutralization of armed and dangerous individuals
Entered by: AB Trecartin

20:22 Aug 16, 2011
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. / Public Security
French term or phrase: réduction de forcenés
This term appears in a text on crisis negotiations and hostage takings and refers to the handling of deranged individuals who have taken other persons hostage. It seems to be somewhat common in the French context. For example, the Groupe d'Intervention Gendarmerie Nationale includes the following in its description: "Il est chargé de la lutte contre le grand banditisme et le terrorisme. La réduction de forcenés ou de preneurs d'otages fait aussi partie du large panel de see missions..."
I thought perhaps of an expression including "containment" but have found nothing definite. I am looking for an expression that would be used by police tactical squads, particularly in the North American context.
AB Trecartin
Canada
Local time: 23:51
subduing gunmen
Explanation:
I usually hear and read "subduing" in the police context. "Neutralizing" could also work. I don't think "crazed" or "lunatic" or "maniac" is necessary--the term "gunmen" says it all, because it immediately conjures up an image of people who have guns but are not using them in a law enforcement, military, hunting, or self-protection capacity.

Furthermore, while it would clearly be desirable to reduce the number of gunmen, lunatics, etc., I don't know how the gendarmerie would go about doing so. To me, it's far more likely that they would be able to subdue/neutralize gunmen than to prevent their existence.

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-08-16 21:25:48 GMT)
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If "gunmen" is too specific, then how about "armed madmen"or "violent madmen"?

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-08-16 21:28:16 GMT)
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"armed individuals" or "violent individuals" could fit the context, but the word "individuals" doesn't seem to capture the "mentally unbalanced" part of "forcenés"
Selected response from:

Matthew Kushinka
United States
Local time: 00:51
Grading comment
Thanks to all for the help. Each of your suggestions seemed valid for different contexts and got me on the right track. While I ultimately adapted the suggestion in Just Opera's peer comment, which covers all the bases, points to Matthew for suggesting "neutralizing" and "armed".
It wasn't clear from my question, but negotiation is normally attempted before resorting to force, so "neutralization", which doesn't immediately connote a violent resolution, seems appropriate as well.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1subduing gunmen
Matthew Kushinka
4reducing the number of lunatics
cc in nyc
3 +1subduing beserk individuals/persons
B D Finch
4neutralizing/containment/incapacitation of the active (frenzied/mad/deranged) attacker
Yvonne Gallagher
3taking down of fanatics OR containment of fanatics
Joshua Wolfe
3containment of violent persons
kashew
2overpowering crazed gunmen
Marion Feildel


  

Answers


23 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
taking down of fanatics OR containment of fanatics


Explanation:
I am more confident about forcenés = fanatics than I am for réduction = taking down of (see URLs - which link to the EN and FR version of a Govt. of Canada National Defence website probably written in EN)

"taking down of" might be too colloquial for your text. Also 'réduction' may simply mean "reduce the number of" -- not clear in the limited context.


    Reference: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/commun/ml-fe/article-eng.asp?id...
    Reference: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/commun/ml-fe/article-fra.asp?id...
Joshua Wolfe
Local time: 00:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Definitely along the right lines. Here is a link to another text using the term. In my text as well it appears in a list of the functions carried out by a tactical squad (see p. 51): http://chasseurdombre.free.fr/images-site/these.pdf

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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
reducing the number of lunatics


Explanation:
or maniacs or madmen.

Here's the TLFi entry for forcené:
II.− Substantif
A.− Personne en proie à une crise de folie furieuse. Se démener comme un forcené. Le vieux paysan, retirant son arme des plaies, la replongeait coup sur coup dans le ventre, dans l'estomac, dans la gorge, frappant comme un forcené (Maupass., Contes et nouv., t. 2, St-Antoine, 1883, p. 201). Les gendarmes, venus arrêter Léopold dans son établissement, s'étaient vus dans l'obligation d'abattre le forcené (Aymé, Uranus, 1948, p. 267)

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Note added at 32 mins (2011-08-16 20:55:08 GMT)
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Oops!, réduction may not be "reduction" here! :o

cc in nyc
Local time: 00:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 11
Notes to answerer
Asker: Concerning your note, yes, the idea is more containment, or neutralization (as Matthew Kushinka suggests), rather than a reduction in numbers.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: While shooting the insane might reduce their number, it is unlikely to be taken up as policy. Of course bystanders and those involved may become mentally ill as a result and thus it may actually increase the numbers!
20 hrs
  -> Indeed I have been pondering how to rid the streets of NYC of lunatics both quietly and efficiently. (Guns would disturb the quiet favored by translators.)
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
containment of violent persons


Explanation:
*

kashew
France
Local time: 06:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
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36 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
subduing gunmen


Explanation:
I usually hear and read "subduing" in the police context. "Neutralizing" could also work. I don't think "crazed" or "lunatic" or "maniac" is necessary--the term "gunmen" says it all, because it immediately conjures up an image of people who have guns but are not using them in a law enforcement, military, hunting, or self-protection capacity.

Furthermore, while it would clearly be desirable to reduce the number of gunmen, lunatics, etc., I don't know how the gendarmerie would go about doing so. To me, it's far more likely that they would be able to subdue/neutralize gunmen than to prevent their existence.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-08-16 21:25:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If "gunmen" is too specific, then how about "armed madmen"or "violent madmen"?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-08-16 21:28:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"armed individuals" or "violent individuals" could fit the context, but the word "individuals" doesn't seem to capture the "mentally unbalanced" part of "forcenés"

Matthew Kushinka
United States
Local time: 00:51
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 3
Grading comment
Thanks to all for the help. Each of your suggestions seemed valid for different contexts and got me on the right track. While I ultimately adapted the suggestion in Just Opera's peer comment, which covers all the bases, points to Matthew for suggesting "neutralizing" and "armed".
It wasn't clear from my question, but negotiation is normally attempted before resorting to force, so "neutralization", which doesn't immediately connote a violent resolution, seems appropriate as well.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, subduing, containment and neutralization are all along the right lines, but gunmen is too specific.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Just Opera: neutralising armed and dangerous individuals. Forcenés = armed
1 hr
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
overpowering crazed gunmen


Explanation:
>

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Note added at 1 hr (2011-08-16 22:02:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

En français, un forcené dans le langage de la police c'est quelque chose de précis : un homme armé qui se barricade dans une maison et menace de tirer sur la police qui lui demande de se rendre. Un homme avec une bombe ou un couteau... ce serait un terroriste, un gangster, mais pas un "forcené".

http://www.cyberpresse.ca/actualites/quebec-canada/justice-e...

Example sentence(s):
  • The fledgling gendarme acquires the basic skills of his trade - overpowering a crazed gunman, quelling a fail riot, "shadowing" suspects, protecting VIPs and dealing with terrorists.
  • Would you begin to plead with the gunman to let you go? Would you wait for an opportunity to overpower the gunman?

    Reference: http://www.zoklet.net/totse/en/politics/foreign_military_int...
    Reference: http://blog.ampli.com/2011/05/police-save-lives-with-amplivo...
Marion Feildel
Turkey
Local time: 07:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: A bit too specific, as the individual could have a bomb or knife.

Asker: Merci pour la précision!

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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
neutralizing/containment/incapacitation of the active (frenzied/mad/deranged) attacker


Explanation:
Old policy was CONTROL, CONTAIN, NEGOTIATE but often there is no time to plan if there is an active attacker/shooter who has taken hostages.

"... The old doctrine of control, contain and negotiate could cost people their lives in a so-called "active shooter" incident. Now, SWAT teams and patrol officers alike know that sometimes they have to act immediately. An example of this new active shooter doctrine at work occurred in December 2006, when an angry man armed with a gun entered a Chicago office building and began shooting. While holding a hostage at gunpoint, the man was shot by a Chicago SWAT officer."


people.howstuffworks.com › ... › Legal System › Law Enforcement - Cached
police officer is on patrol when he gets a call about a domestic dispute. ... apartment and incapacitate the attacker with minimal risk of injury to the hostage, ... A hostage situation - SWAT team snipers are trained to take out an ...

www.copshield.com/testimonial-training.php - Cached
Let's now talk about 'Active Attacker' (killer) incidents. ... from 'Active Attacker' is that there may be very little—or no time—for a SWAT team call out. ... and neutralize the individual in order to limit the number of casualties. ...



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Note added at 5 hrs (2011-08-17 01:22:50 GMT)
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www.vdh.state.va.us/OEMS/Files_page/symposium/.../PREP-920....
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
5 Nov 2009 – sudden frenzy), will attempt to kill or. i l i j ..... for waiting (47 minutes) for SWAT team for waiting (47 minutes) for SWAT .... Most attackers had access to and had ... The sooner the shooter can be neutralized, the ...

www.averett.edu/safety/pdf/AU CIRT Manual april 08.pdf?...
File Format: PDF/Adobe Acrobat - Quick View
Hostage Situation. 14. Bomb Threat/Bomb Detonation(s) ... Critical Incident Response Team (CIRT) operating procedures in the event of a crisis .... Provide support/counseling for (alleged) attacker, if student. .... Containment: 1. Officer Safety: The Campus Security officers will take all necessary steps to ...


Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 05:51
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
subduing beserk individuals/persons


Explanation:
I prefer "subdue" to "neutralise" because it is not a euphemistic way of trying to get us to accept unrestrained violence as routine.

Beserk is a common way of referring to people who are acting in a deranged manner and has the advantage of not purporting to give a diagnosis; they might be certifiably insane, or just temporarily deranged.

"exercised in order to subdue to the subject. ... berserk person, the Officers shall use extreme caution. "
www.nyclu.org/pdfs/crc_police_mental_illness_report_120205....

"The local city police used a Taser on the wrong person. ... The Tazer is proximate - the berserk individual (with superhuman ... At the moment they are subdued - they may be intubated, sedated, cooled and restrained. ..."
www.budoseek.net › ... › Military/LEO General Discussion



B D Finch
France
Local time: 06:51
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 78
Notes to answerer
Asker: I certainly agree with your preference, although in this case my text calls for something that sounds like the official jargon (it says "ce que l'on appelle la réduction...").


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jean-Louis S.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Jean-Louis
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