vaigrage

English translation: ceiling

13:25 Mar 3, 2011
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Ships, Sailing, Maritime / Shipbuilding in the 17th
French term or phrase: vaigrage
Ahoy mates!

More terms from my shipbuilding glossary.

I mention these two terms together because it is essential that I can juxtapose them in no uncertain terms as the planks applied inboard (vaigrage) and outboard (bordage). Consider this context:

"...le vaigrage et le bordage habillent la coque à l’intérieur puis à l’extérieur."

"L’ensemble des planches extérieures portent le nom de bordage. On parle de vaigrage pour les planches intérieures."

I have very nearly decided upon "viagrage" > "strakes" and "bordage" > "wales" but would appreciate some confirmation or other suggestions. (To tell you the truth, I'm feeling a bit weary of not being able to document the two terms firmly; on the Internet they are often used quite liberally, and sometimes seem replaced by other terms. The matter seems complicated by the fact that these are historic terms.)

Thank you for your help!
Veronica Coquard
France
Local time: 12:17
English translation:ceiling
Explanation:
Ceiling
Naut. The inside planking of a ship's bottom carried up to the lowest deck; = foot-waling.
OED

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Note added at 1 heure (2011-03-03 14:29:14 GMT)
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In the simplest terms, the ceiling is on the inside and the planking is on the outside.

You could also call the planking "the skin" as Falconer's Marine Dictionary of 1769 talks of "laying on the skin".

Wales are planks that are thicker than the rest, placed in strategic parts of the hull to make it stronger or more rigid.

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Note added at 1 heure (2011-03-03 14:31:03 GMT)
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Skin
9.II.9 Naut. a.II.9.a The planking, or iron plating, covering the ribs or frame of a vessel.

(a)    1769 Falconer Dict. Marine (1780), Planking is some⁓times called ‘laying on the skin’, by the artificers.  
OED

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Note added at 2 heures (2011-03-03 16:20:33 GMT)
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vaigre: I'd call them planks
Selected response from:

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 12:17
Grading comment
In the end, I did go with ceiling, and I thank you for the information that you provided.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2ceiling
Graham macLachlan
4inboard planking
kashew
Summary of reference entries provided
Le Chasse-Marée...
Nikki Scott-Despaigne

Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
ceiling


Explanation:
Ceiling
Naut. The inside planking of a ship's bottom carried up to the lowest deck; = foot-waling.
OED

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 heure (2011-03-03 14:29:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In the simplest terms, the ceiling is on the inside and the planking is on the outside.

You could also call the planking "the skin" as Falconer's Marine Dictionary of 1769 talks of "laying on the skin".

Wales are planks that are thicker than the rest, placed in strategic parts of the hull to make it stronger or more rigid.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 heure (2011-03-03 14:31:03 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Skin
9.II.9 Naut. a.II.9.a The planking, or iron plating, covering the ribs or frame of a vessel.

(a)    1769 Falconer Dict. Marine (1780), Planking is some⁓times called ‘laying on the skin’, by the artificers.  
OED

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 heures (2011-03-03 16:20:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

vaigre: I'd call them planks

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 12:17
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 352
Grading comment
In the end, I did go with ceiling, and I thank you for the information that you provided.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi Graham. If this is a translation of the term "vaigrage", it looks like more evidence that "wales" and "strakes" are not strict terms for, respectively, the interior and exterior planking. The question is, what are these terms?

Asker: Sorry, my note was a bit mixed-up (which reflects my mood, I suppose!) - actually "foot-waling" does refer to inboard planking. Do you think that "waling" / "wales" refer specifically to the fact that they are inboard?

Asker: Thank you very much, Graham! It's nice to have a specialist en board! ...So "planking" is indeed a specific term, and not a general term for planks. I see. (I'm really not that bad - I've managed to find translations for much more technical terms than these - but the apparent simplicity of these few terms got the better of me!) ;-)

Asker: One more little question, Graham, if I may. There is an occurence that goes "Vaigrage: Revêtement intérieur du navire constitué de lames de bois, les vaigres, formant un doublage des couples." If I translate "vaigrage" as "ceiling", how do I translate "vaigre"? (Before, of course, I had "waling" and "wales".)


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Irina Lazarescu: my maritime lexicone,published in 1967- agrees this term, but in my shipbuiling thinking , ceiling is similar to floor speaking about inside part, because ceiling of a room/ compartment becomes floor for upper room from next deck.
31 mins

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: And note to asker "wales" are fine for "préceinte".
4 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
inboard planking


Explanation:
Bonnefoux & Paris, who also give "ceiling".
"Inboard planking" seems more explicit.

kashew
France
Local time: 12:17
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 66
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Reference comments


5 hrs
Reference: Le Chasse-Marée...

Reference information:
Le Chasse-Marée Guide des Termes de Marine gives the following definitions which concord with what has been said, viz, vaigrage for the inside, bordage for the outside. No doubt about that. Your text uses the terms in that way too. My little guide – I am supposing you are familiar with the reputation of Le Chasse-Marée – provides suggestions for English versions of the terms too.

VAIGRAGE, VAIGRE (‘ceiling’ for both in English)
'vaigrage' : ensemble de bordées intérieurs formant un revêtement de la coque. Il protège le cargaison ou les emménagements de l'humidité.

'vaigre' : bordé intérieur constituant le vaigrage.

Comment : the explanations are clear and I think we all agree that 'vaigrage' is for the inside.


BORDAGE (‘planking’, ‘skin’), BORDE (‘plank’, ‘skin’)
‘bordage’ : désigne chacune des planches recouvrant la charpente de la coque pour former l’enveloppe extérieure : le bordé… Aujourd’hui on utilise souvent le mot bordage pour designer, au contraire, l’enveloppe extérieure dans son ensemble et le mot bordé pour designer chaque planche
‘bordé’ : désigne à l’origine l’ensemble des bordages formant la coque et aujourd’hui souvent , chaque bordage lui-même…
Comment : note the difference between traditional and contemporary usage.

Comparing these suggestions with the Dictionnaire Technique Maritime d’Alain CLOUET, Maison du Dictionnaire, then ‘vaigrage’ enjoys a wide panel (no pun intended) of suggestions including ceiling, planking, lining. In your context, were this my text, I would have no qualms about “ceiling” for “vaigrage”. Were the ships more recent, I’d contact the client to see if they were not referring to “inner planking, lining”, which is where Clouet comes up with “…par extension, toute doublure d’isolation” and which can mean walls, not just ceilings, if you excuse my landlubberish parallels. Irrelevant here as these are old ships.
Bordage is often rendered by plank, planking, shell plating (metal, generally), the final choice depending on the specific construction, if known.
Here’s what I’d have in mind were this mine :
Vaigrage –v- bordage = Inner –v- outer
Ceiling -v- planking, outer planking
NB : Check with client to be sure that vaigrage is actually referring to ceiling and not all the inner planking, lining.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 190
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you for going to such lengths for me! :-)

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