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French to English translations [PRO] Ships, Sailing, Maritime / schooner rigging
French term or phrase:Hunier volant
I am translating a website on a early 20th century schooner. It includes a description of the sails. This follows from my previous question. The sail I cannot find a translation for is: hunier volant. I would be grateful for any suggestions. Many thanks.
Alex, as the NS OED definition I quoted in my answer makes clear, there are two fundamental types of topsail — the ones we are dealing with here seem to refer to the rectangular upper and lower topsails on the fore-mast, rather than the alternative more or less triangular type rigged above the gaff-rigged mainsail.
consider the evolution of the sail starting with a single square sail on a mast to which some innovator adds another sail above; a topsail is a venerable thing indeed!
Bourth (X)
Thanks Graham
09:00 Nov 12, 2009
Interesting indeed! All falls into place for me (never contested your or Michael's knowledge btw, just latching onto details and looking for explanations; otherwise I might have entered my Discussion comment as an Answer). Yes, the vessel in my book must be a topsail schooner with gaff topsail on the main, as you say. These things are confusing if, like me, you don't know that a topsail can be both a "hunier" and ... what's the French for a "gaff topsail"? ... yet that unless specified otherwise a topsail is a "hunier" (if I understand correctly) (a bit like "whales" being understood to be only baleines since cachalots, a whale subset in English, a cétacé subset in French, is a different animal for the French).
and I for one am always ready to acknowledge Graham's expertise (gained from hands-on experience, and he still actually works in the maritime world, unlike the rest of us), but I hope we haven't lost sight of the fact that Melanie was looking for a translation of "hunier volant", to which she received a perfectly correct answer (from Graham) which received 4 "agrees" shortly after posting her question yesterday ....
sounds to me that you are describing a gaff topsail on the main ( a fore-and-aft sail which is set above a gaff); a topsail schooner would have a square topsail, that's what makes it a topsail schooner; a fore-and-after with gaff topsails on both masts and no square sails would be a schooner, not a topsail schooner; a gaff topsail is not an "important" sail, it is for fair weather; a square topsail is a driving sail, like a spinnaker
Bourth (X)
As I said "FWIW"
08:01 Nov 12, 2009
The picture of this schooner is cut off just aft of the main mast, so not much detail on the afterrigging, but you can make out the main mast with a second mast attached at the top, to which is attached what is presumably the "main topsail" (there being fore upper and fore lower topsails on the forward mast extension, th) since the legend indicates the "main topsail halyard" on what must be the "mât de hune" since the legend shows the "étai de mat de hune", a cable connecting the top of this main mast extension to the top of the forward mast (at the bottom of the forward "hune"). This sail is not the "square" type like the "huniers" but a triangular one with a boom. There is another similar sail below it, attached to the same boom (gaff?) at the top. I suppose this rigging with two square topsails on the forward mast and a (basically) triangular topsail on the main mast is not the only option for a topsail schooner, but if the vessel in question is like that shown, i.e. with "huniers" ("voile carrée" a/c to Lexis) forward and triangular topsail aft, then it might need to be specified. Presumably "topsail" does not indicate sail shape as "hunier" does.
"fore" refers to the mast and a schooner would only have topsails on the fore mast (so no need to point this out); in fact, a hierarchy of two-masted rigs would go : schooner, topsail schooner, brigantine, brig... look them up to see what I mean
I think that's probably a bit of a red herring, Alex: I feel sure the fore/main simply refers to which mast the sail is on (remember that on a schooner, the after mast is the main-mast. In practice, both masts could have a tops'l (or two).
Seems to be confirming that volant = upper, whichever mast it's on.
Bourth (X)
Fore?
22:45 Nov 11, 2009
In Gallimard's bilingual version (Marine d'hier et d'aujourd'hui) of Dorling Kindersley's "Ships and Sailing, Today and Yesterday", a double topsail schooner / goélette à double hunier is shown, on which the hunier volant is shown as "FORE upper topsail" and hunier fixe as "FORE lower topsail". On the aftermast is a "MAIN topsail". FWIW.
Graham, you're a gentleman ! I'll take a peek when I have a moment. As I may have mentioned, there's a photo of the Maria Asumpta on the cover of my copy of "Guide des gréements traditionnels". Lovely boat ...
peer agreement (net): +2
