mouflage a neuf brins

12:07 Dec 29, 2008
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Ships, Sailing, Maritime
French term or phrase: mouflage a neuf brins
This expression appears in the following sentence in a technical report regarding a linkspan at a port: "L'amplitude de variation du niveau de la passerelle inférieure (pour s'adapter aux navires et a la marée) est de 11,10 m, ce qui compte tenu du *mouflage a neuf brins* correspond a une course de cable de 100 metres". Thanks in advance for any light you may be able to shed on this for me!
Sarah Russell
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:29


Summary of answers provided
3 +1nine-strand reeving system
SueE
39-sheave block
Bourth (X)
1 +19:1 purchase
Tony M
1 -19-strand cable
Graham macLachlan


  

Answers


41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
9-sheave block


Explanation:
Just to point out that this exists :

9 Sheave Block. 6173. 2 800 Insert 6m. 2420. 1 097. 189 t – 7 Sheave Block. 5700. 2 585 Insert 12m. 3527. 1 600. 92 t – 3 Sheave Block ...
www.sterlingcrane.ca/transportation/all-terrain/trAC700-1.p...

HOOK BLOCKS: 18-ton single hook, 110-ton 3 sheave block & 232-ton 9 sheave block . ROCK BOXES: 2, 25 cubic yard rock dumping boxes. ...
www.globaltradedays.biz/cgi-bin/auction.pl?action=item&item...


Bourth (X)
Local time: 02:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 142

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Sure, there was never any doubt about that in my own mind...! / It's one cable that goes round the block 9 times
16 mins

disagree  Graham macLachlan: sorry for changing my mind all the time, I think they are referring to the parts of the tackle and not one block with nine sheaves//for what it's worth: lifts have a single cable whose break point is 6x the max load
28 mins
  -> I have doubts myself about this being a single-cable system. Safer to have nine (for example) separate cables, surely.
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): -1
9-strand cable


Explanation:
a 'moufle' is a pulley ('block' in nautical speak)
Routledge gives 'mouflage' as a term used by the oil industry for 'block' however I've never heard a block being designated according to the number of strands in the rope it takes rather its diameter.
Perhaps they are talking about a block with nine sheaves (wheels) but that seems excessive
a 'brin' is a component of rope or cable and is definitely translated as 'strand'

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Note added at 11 mins (2008-12-29 12:18:40 GMT)
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mind you, with 100 metres of cable it may well be a nine-sheave tackle

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Note added at 13 mins (2008-12-29 12:21:22 GMT)
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in that case they may be using 'brin' as a synonym for the number of parts in the tackle, like a "nine-part tackle"

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Note added at 17 mins (2008-12-29 12:24:39 GMT)
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chase tackle and hydraulic pullers. The additional pulling force acquired with beach. gear is provided by either. a nine part tackle or. a. hydraulic ...
ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel6/8271/25891/01151986.pdf

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Note added at 54 mins (2008-12-29 13:01:30 GMT)
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Brin Running part
Brin Strand (rope)
DCN glossary

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Note added at 57 mins (2008-12-29 13:04:50 GMT)
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Note about the term 'parts':

The mechanical advantage of a block and tackle is equal to the number of parts in the line, that either attach to or run through the moving block, or the number of supporting ropes. For example, take a block and tackle with 2 sheaves on both the moving block and the fixed block. If one compares the blocks, one will see one block will have 4 lines running through its sheaves. The other will have 4 lines running through its sheaves (including the part of the line being pulled or hauled), with a 5th line attached to a secure point on the block. If the hauling part is coming out of the fixed block, the block and tackle will have a mechanical advantage of 4. If the tackle is reversed, so that the hauling part is coming from the moving block, the mechanical advantage is now 5.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle



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Note added at 1 hr (2008-12-29 13:15:47 GMT)
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A tackle is a portable purchase consisting of a rope rove through two or more ... The number of parts at the moving block, and therefore the mechanical ...
wickseacadets.googlepages.com/blockandtackle

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-12-29 13:24:12 GMT)
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Depending on how you make off the standing part, you could have a nine part tackle with 2 x 4 sheaves or 1 x 4 sheaves and 1 x 5 sheaves on the moving end.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-12-29 14:43:59 GMT)
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I don't see any problem with purchase except that you use 'fold' as:

Three-fold purchase. This consists of two treble blocks; its V.R. is 7 if rove to advantage (see fig. 3), and 6 if rove to disadvantage (see fig. ...
www.btinternet.com/~fourthgill.seascouts/tackle.htm

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-12-29 14:49:07 GMT)
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I think I better draw a line under my peregrinations... I'd go with either 'ninefold purchase' or 'nine-part tackle'.

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 02:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 352

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: Sorry, Graham, it's nothing to do with the number of strands making up the cable itself. / Yup, 'parts' is the word!
3 mins
  -> no, they seem to talking about the parts in the tackle
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +1
mouflage à neuf brins
9:1 purchase


Explanation:
I have to say that I am guessing, as I have never personally come across this term. However, GDT suggests 'mouflage' as 'rigging of blocks', which is descriptively accurate even though it isn't the exact term that suits here, I don't think.

It means that the cable passes round the blocks 9 times, thus acheiving a 9x mechanical advantage but entailing a 9-fold increase in the length of cable (i.e. the velocity advantage is 1/9th)

Hence moving the passerelle 11 m entails the movement of 9 x 11 m of cable, = 100 m.

I think there are various ways this can be expressed in EN, but from my distant nautical days, I think blocks-&-tackles are usually expressed in terms of a 'purchase' ratio.

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Note added at 16 mins (2008-12-29 12:23:40 GMT)
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From my experiences of things like cross-Channel ferries, yes, Graham, they do indeed use these massive 9-sheave blocks — it's quite impressive to see what a massive tackle that makes, with so much cable — but then, it has to carry a lot of weight!

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-12-29 13:08:43 GMT)
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This Wiki article explains and illustrates it all pretty well:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Block_and_tackle

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-12-29 15:42:21 GMT)
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'reeving system' refers to the way the rope/cable is threaded round the sheaves making up the blocks; it IS the right word, but sounds odd when used like this in EN; I believe this is the more normal way it would be expressed in natural EN.

Tony M
France
Local time: 02:29
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 150

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  SueE: I'm not sure about "purchase". See note just added.
46 mins
  -> I agree that 'purchase' does not translate 'mouflage' per se; but I believe this is the neatest way to convey the intended sense of the source text in natural EN

agree  Graham macLachlan: I think 'purchase' is fine (in the sense of 'tackle') but 'ninefold purchase' seems to me more authentic!
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Graham! Yes, I agree, though i just felt that '9-fold' sounded slightly quaint and archaic
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
nine-strand reeving system


Explanation:
"mouflage" is normally "reeving system," so applying logic produces this suggestion

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Note added at 57 mins (2008-12-29 13:04:47 GMT)
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From Termium (I tend to shy away from GDT, it produces some very strange ideas sometimes):
mouflage
CORRECT, MASC, STANDARDIZED

reeving system
CORRECT, STANDARDIZED

DEF – Système de poulies et de câbles destiné à faire varier les forces et les vitesses.
OBS – Mouflage : terme normalisé par l'ISO.

DEF – System consisting of sheaves and ropes for changing forces and speeds.
OBS – Reeving system: term standardized by ISO.

My specialist technical marine dictionary gives "moufle" as "purchase", not "mouflage". It then suggests "three fold purchase" or "treble fold purchase" for example. But this does not seem to cover the entire system suggested by "mouflage", merely individual blocks.

Perhaps line or cable or even wire would be more suitable terms for "brin" here, although not strictly accurate.


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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-12-29 17:17:11 GMT)
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I must have the wrong end of the stick - I did not understand this to be a system for lifting or lowering something but more for ensuring that the linkspan remained at the correct level between the ship and the quay during variations in tide levels or currents, for example.

I retire from the lists!


    Reference: http://www.freepatentsonline.com/4251059.html
SueE
Ireland
Local time: 01:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: 'reeving' is certainly the right idea, though I'm a little hesitant of associating this with 'strand'... / By definition, the diea of purchase usually involves a "system" of more than one block
5 mins

agree  Bourth (X): The more I think about it,the more logical it would appear to be have nine cables. 9x11.1=99.9m "exposed" cable length at lowest position. Admittedly, this would not really qualify as "course" without a little linguistic gymnastics ...
1 hr

neutral  Graham macLachlan: a reeving system is surely a system for reeving whereas here they must be talking about a system for lifting or lowering
2 hrs
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