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French to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Religion / in a text about cathedrals
French term or phrase:clergé affectaire
An architect has been tasked with the design of the "clergé affectaire" for a cathedral.
I've found this screed:
L’affectataire
Un affectataire n’est pas un locataire. Cette notion n’existe d’ailleurs, en droit, que par rapport a l’Eglise. La loi fait, des fidèles et du clergé, les usagers exclusifs. Le clergé affectataire, c’est le clergé nommé par l’évêque, en communion avec Rome. Pour une cathédrale, c’est l’évêque qui est affectataire direct. L’affectation est permanente et perpétuelle. Le fait de ne pas célébrer ne suspend pas l’affectation. Pour la rompre, il faut un acte légal, que le culte n’ait pas été célébré pendant au moins six mois, puis que le maire ait sollicité une désaffection, après délibération et vote au conseil municipal, que le préfet en contrôle les actes qu’il transmet à l’évêque qui doit donner son consentement par écrit. Alors seulement, un décret du préfet, ou du Conseil d’Etat s’il s’agit d’un monument historique, peut intervenir.
L’affectation est exclusive : les fidèles et le clergé en sont les usagers exclusifs. Autrement dit, tout autre usage ne peut être que ponctuel, exceptionnel. Et on ne peut pas faire de convention pour un autre usage.
L’affectataire a aussi des devoirs, notamment le gardiennage. Le curé a pouvoir des clefs, donc décide des heures d’ouverture et de fermeture. Il a le devoir de conserver dans l’état un lieu et un mobilier qui ne lui appartiennent pas. Le devoir de surveillance l’oblige à signaler à la municipalité tout ce qui se dégrade ou qui nécessite intervention, etc.
Ainsi, le curé ne peut pas démolir, vendre, sans le demander préalablement au maire. Que ce soit un autel ou un banc de communion. Mais la municipalité n’a pas à intervenir sur les motivations qui amènent à faire ce changement. Le maire n’a à donner qu’une autorisation de type administratif, qui vise à protéger les biens, a s’assurer qu’ils ne sont pas détruits ou vendus. Dans la pratique, les rapports se déroulent plutôt bien. Aussi, il est préférable d’ouvrir chaque fois le dialogue avec les maires et leurs Conseils.
However, I can't find anything in terms of the architect in charge of the "clergé affectaire".
In talking about the use of the term 'incumbent', I am talking about a term commonly used within a particular church community. This is important because the translation will have to use terms with which the particular church community is familiar. Catholics rarely refer to parish priests as 'incumbents' (either before or after Vatican II). The official translation of the 1983 Code of Canon Law does not use this term to discuss the duties and office of priests with pastoral responsibility for a parish. Anglicans have a wide range of titles, but 'incumbent' has a certain level of currency, especially in official usage. There is no 'rightness' or 'wrongness' at stake here. It is just a question of finding the term most appropriate for the particular context. Some sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incumbent_(ecclesiastical) and http://www.tonyhj.ca/Priest/odd_questions.html#incumbent
is neither C of E nor RC - Vatican II has been this way :) I don't know whether "incumbent" is the right term, and I should think we ought to look at the new Code of Canon Law for an answer (on the web). However, I don't think that term should be disqualified on the culture- and confession-specific grounds that you cite.
Worth pointing out that 'incumbent' is used specifically in Anglican circles and may be too specfic here. The 'clergé affectataire' are simply the clergy appointed to run the parish/cathedral etc. In Catholic circles, they would just be referred to as 'parish/cathedral clergy' etc. You could add 'appointed by the bishop' to make it clearer, but it's not really necessary since it is already implied. Remember too that potential 'incumbents' are free to apply for a job in an Anglican parish, and may or may not be selected by the parish council. Catholic clergy do not apply of their own initiative. They are appointed to their parish by the bishop alone.
Perhaps the architect was tasked with designing "facilities for the incumbent clergy". I must say the statement of the problem is far from clear, and the word certainly isn't "affectaire".
At first I thought this was the text you're translating, but your reference to "I found this screed" suggests that's not the case. Please could you give us the French sentence.
The correct spelling is "affectataire", and we've had it before. In fact yours was the answer chosen, Writeaway, though it was ten years ago, so you could be excused for not remembering. You said "controlling authority", which wouldn't be appropriate here, but the idea is the same. Maybe "occupant"? http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/other/255426-aff...
Writeaway is correct. I think Steve has confused matters by saying "an architect has been tasked with the design of the "clergé affectaire", which doesn't make sense. Affectaire is about the priest's relationship with the building, neither owner nor tenant.
"An "affectataire" is not a renter." Further on, the citation mentions that the curé cannot demolish or sell church property or furnishings without asking the permission of the mayor. I think this term refers to the parsonage, parish house or rectory. In the Roman Catholic context, "rectory" or the building where the priest lives and has his office, is probably the closest term.
What does this have to do with architecture? here's what your actual text explains: Le clergé affectataire, c’est le clergé nommé par l’évêque, en communion avec Rome. Pour une cathédrale, c’est l’évêque qui est affectataire direct.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
6 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): -3
Rectory
Explanation: The context of the citation indicates that this is the building where the priest lives and works.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 hrs (2012-12-17 14:20:46 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
If the term is applied to the priest himself, the term would be the "parish priest" or "resident priest": the priest who is housed in the rectory.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 7 hrs (2012-12-17 14:22:04 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Since the architect is charged with the design of the "clergé affectaire", the term most likely refers to the building and not the priest!
Kedls United States Local time: 06:29 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Merry Christmas everybody,
I've clearly misunderstood that you need to be an expert in every subject before asking a question.
I couldn't put much info up because of CONFIDENTAILITY. However, I'm going to defend myself.
This is the only info I can reval:
"Conçu par M. DUPONT, ancien photographe et chef opérateur, MME DUPONT, architecte du clergé affectataire, et M. DULOURD du cabinet XYZ, le nouveau dispositif permet d’importantes économies d’énergie. "
Looking at the answers, I can now see that it would seem that said person had been entrusted by the "clergé affectaire". Yes, I misunderstood. I apologise profusely to all experts on eccelesiastal matters.
When I read "Quel architecte du Panthéon donne son nom à une rue du 5e arrondissement ?" I understand that this means "which architect of said building".
Same here:
"...il fut l'architecte du pavillon de la France de San Francisco en 1938."
I didn't twig that MME DUPOUNT was somebody's personal architect.
Mea culpa.
I will endeavour to ask more erudite questions in 2013.
Bonnes Fêtes.
Steve
peer agreement (net): -3