ramener ces formes à des notions exprimables, explicables.

English translation: Transform these forms into notions that could be expressed and explained.

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:ramener ces formes à des notions exprimables, explicables.
English translation:Transform these forms into notions that could be expressed and explained.

15:21 May 4, 2020
    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2020-05-08 08:55:27 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)


French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
French term or phrase: ramener ces formes à des notions exprimables, explicables.
Description de l'etat d'esprit dans lequel l'artiste a peint son tableau :

"Après avoir découvert ces mondes aux formes parfaites, tels des fractales à la complexité infini, l’intérêt pour la géométrie sacrée arrive rapidement, comme une tentative de ramener ces formes à des notions exprimables, explicables"
Hugues Roumier
France
Local time: 05:02
Transform these forms into notions that could be expressed and explained.
Explanation:
As easy as it sounds
Selected response from:

ABDESSAMAD BINAOUI
Morocco
Local time: 04:02
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +6Transform these forms into notions that could be expressed and explained.
ABDESSAMAD BINAOUI
3 +5condense these forms into expressible, explainable concepts.
Lyle Mitzi
3 +5reduce these forms to expressible ideas, which can be elucidated
Barbara Cochran, MFA
3 +4Render these forms more (explicit /explicable)
ormiston
4 +2... an attempt at translating those concepts into communicable, explainable notions.
C@CafeLingua
5bring these forms back to expressive and explicable notions.
Saro Nova
3 +1to infuse these forms with tangible expression
Timothy Rake


Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +6
Transform these forms into notions that could be expressed and explained.


Explanation:
As easy as it sounds

ABDESSAMAD BINAOUI
Morocco
Local time: 04:02
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ArabicArabic
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Maybe not quite... To start with 'transform ... forms' is inelegant, as well as being arguably inaccurate; and then the use of the conditional 'could' seems a curious way to handle FR '-able'. But this is the best option on the table so far!
19 mins
  -> Yes, we can use "can". Thank you

agree  Philippa Smith: I'd use "can be"...
21 mins
  -> Yes, we can use "can". Thank you

agree  Said Elbelghiti: That seems a fair translation for it
22 mins
  -> Thank you

agree  Carol Gullidge: ..."can" :)
1 hr
  -> yes thank you

agree  EirTranslations
3 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  Daryo: or "concepts"
4 hrs
  -> Thank you
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
reduce these forms to expressible ideas, which can be elucidated


Explanation:
How I interpret it.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2020-05-04 15:39:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://www.khanacademy.org/humanities/ap-art-history/later-...

Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 23:02
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: I would take issue with 'reduce' to convey 'ramener', which seems rather 'réducteur', and also with turning it into an inelegant subordinate clause using 'which'. I can't say I'm very comfortable with 'expressible' either. Yes, I do have.
10 mins
  -> Do you have any experience translating art texts, like I do (and a lot of it)? And I can't? https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/expressible

neutral  Carol Gullidge: Translation loss in that it doesn't flow as nicely as the ST, nor quite as accurate as it could be. A mon avis, Tony a raison !//?!
1 hr
  -> No he doesn't.

agree  SafeTex: I think "reduce" is actually the best verb.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, SafeTex.

agree  Lyle Mitzi: I agree broadly, you could use an adjective like 'explicable' or 'explainable' if you wanted to avoid the 'which can...' structure.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, and point well taken.

agree  Nicole Acher: Well phrased, in my opinion.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Nicole, and your comment definitely well taken!

agree  Joshua Parker: I quite like this. I think "reduce" is good here (perhaps your best bet for the verb). I'm not too keen on splitting "exprimables" and "explicables" (I'd try to keep them together either as adjectives or within one sub. clause), but I think it works OK.
3 hrs

neutral  Daryo: re "specialising in art": FYI fractals are pure maths - so what's your experience with maths? Or with logic, as you rearranged the logical links in the ST in a rather illogical way // The "artistic" aspect of fractals is just "collateral benefit".
4 hrs
  -> Please read what I entered as the translation. "Fractals" clearly does not appear as part of it.It's illogical for you to carry on in a bombastic way about something that I didn't even mention as part of my translation of the phrase.

agree  ph-b: Not for me to discuss your choice of words, but "reduce... to..." is the right idea. See discussion.
14 hrs
  -> Thank you, ph-b.
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
to infuse these forms with tangible expression


Explanation:
obviously, not "literal"...but when it comes to the literary, it can't be literal. I waver on the "tangible expression"...I'm looking for something less clumsy than "notions that can be explained" (not very literary). Maybe just "Infuse these forms with the expressible" or "actual expression" "concrete expression". What I feel certain about is the verb "INFUSE". I think that captures the essential of what the artist is doing...

Timothy Rake
United States
Local time: 20:02
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: Like the style! But a little worried about getting away from the original meaning, which I think is almost the reverse of 'infuse' — to me, it is more about getting some highly abstract notion down in a more concrete form.
20 mins
  -> instill?

neutral  Carol Gullidge: agree with Tony; I also like the style, but feel it is a tiny bit over translated (I think!)
57 mins
  -> how about...with a little change in syntax..."give concrete expression to these forms"

agree  Jennifer White: actually I agree with this rendition. This what it means. Some of these other answers are too wordy and clumsy IMO.
2 hrs
  -> thank you Jennifer

neutral  Daryo: fractals are already "tangible" - especially in the form in which they are usually presented - in graphic form (as opposed to the mathematical formulas used to generate fractals)
1 day 8 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
condense these forms into expressible, explainable concepts.


Explanation:
Barbara's suggestion of 'reduce' would not be incorrect in my opinion, but 'condense' could be an alternative if 'reduce' sounds too pejorative.

Lyle Mitzi
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:02
Meets criteria
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daryo: "condense" maybe, but " into expressible, explainable concepts" is spot on.
2 hrs
  -> Thank you!

agree  ph-b: Not for me to discuss your choice of words, but "condense... into..." is the right idea. See discussion.
12 hrs
  -> Thanks for your input.

agree  Tony M
14 hrs
  -> Thanks Tony.

agree  Saro Nova: I like "concepts" a lot here. Maybe "return", or "bring back to" instead of "condense"
14 hrs
  -> Thanks, yes I think 'bring back to' would be fine, or 'restore' could be another option.

agree  Carol Gullidge
14 hrs
  -> Thank you, Carol.
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
Render these forms more (explicit /explicable)


Explanation:
Hope this helps!

ormiston
Local time: 05:02
Meets criteria
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Certainly agree with the verb, if some misgivings about the rest
29 mins

agree  Jennifer White: Like this one too.
1 hr

agree  Jane F
9 hrs

agree  SafeTex: i've already given an agree but this is even better
14 hrs
  -> Thank you!
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
bring these forms back to expressive and explicable notions.


Explanation:
Just as an option for syntax. You will be likely translating the first part of that subjugate as: "like an attempt to..." Perhaps it would get too wordy otherwise. Also, the idea of bringing them "back" is I think important to the meaning here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 hrs (2020-05-05 15:20:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

RETURN* instead of bring... back

Saro Nova
Canada
Local time: 23:02
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: I think the notion of 'returning /bringing back to' is taking this the wrong way, for the reasons stated by Ph_B in the discussion — this is not about taking them back to some state they were in before, it's a more subtle musage of the verb in FR.
22 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
... an attempt at translating those concepts into communicable, explainable notions.


Explanation:
there are quite a few variables we could use for the two key modifiers we want, which are to be able to "express" (iterate, communicate, verbalize) and to "explain".

For "ramener" - I chose "translate" so as not to be repetitious, but you could use "express", and numerous synonyms of that word, here, too.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 4 hrs (2020-05-06 19:29:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


How about ...
"...breaking down those concepts into communicable, explainable notions." ?

C@CafeLingua
Local time: 05:02
Meets criteria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, I think 'translate' works well here.
12 hrs
  -> thanks Tony -

agree  Saro Nova: I like this also, just that I feel the idea of "ramener", as in to "return to" is missing
13 hrs
  -> you're right, I like Hugues' entry listing the Robert's definition of "ramener", as sort of like "bringing it back down to earth", which seems appropriate for this context.
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