entre chien et loup

English translation: wordplay on day/night

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:entre chien et loup
English translation:wordplay on day/night
Entered by: JamesFreeman

15:01 Sep 16, 2012
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
French term or phrase: entre chien et loup
"entre chien et loup, la clarté du jour se mue peu à peu en une obscurité inquiétante"

thanks for your help
JamesFreeman
wordplay on day/night
Explanation:
Some poetic variances to try and convey a sense of the FR emphasis on change and transition from one state to another.

As the day yields to the night...
As the day slowly gives way to the night...
The day slowly fades / blends into the night...

...sinister shadows swallow the light.
...brooding shadows creep into the light.

Of course, it all depends on the rest of the poem, and rhyme is not necessary (and might even be inappropriate).

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Note added at 5 hrs (2012-09-16 20:42:21 GMT)
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...night extinguishes the dying embers of the day...
...shadows creep over the dying embers of the day...

Perhaps inquiétante can be rendered by dread or dreadful:
...light of the day gives way to the dread of the night...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2012-09-16 21:23:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One last try; still battling to capture the sense of transformation, of the metamorphosis of day into night:

...twisted/warped/writhing shadows... (swallow the light, creep over the dying embers, dance the samba).
...cunning shadows... (as in deceitful, forms are hard to distinguish, illusory).
Selected response from:

Wolf Draeger
South Africa
Local time: 03:22
Grading comment
Thank you very much, your suggestions have been most helpful to me!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +10at dusk/nightfall/twilight
polyglot45
3 +5wordplay on day/night
Wolf Draeger
3 +1as the shadows lengthened
Carol Gullidge
3at that time of creeping darkness
Daryo
5 -2between dusk and dawn/ between dog & wolf
perledelune
3the night approaching...
axies
2een
Cyril B.
Summary of reference entries provided
Blog discussion
cc in nyc

Discussion entries: 27





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +10
at dusk/nightfall/twilight


Explanation:
time of day

polyglot45
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 52

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Carol Gullidge: well, yes. Unfortunately, we don't know why James has (presumably) rejected this solution!
30 mins

agree  Cyril B.
38 mins

agree  cc in nyc
38 mins

agree  Rachel Fell: nightfall, eventide...
1 hr

agree  Wolf Draeger
1 hr

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: twilight is the closest to the original of course as it is the "bwteen" day and night and best conveys the idea of "chien et loup".Either of the other two suggestions put forward here would do fine too.
2 hrs

agree  Word Pass
2 hrs

agree  Tony M
4 hrs

agree  Kate Collyer: Nightfall gives the opportunity for night/day opposition instead of dog/wolf, e.g. "at nightfall the daylight dimmed little by little into a troubling darkness".
10 hrs

agree  Letredenoblesse: twilight
22 hrs
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39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -2
between dusk and dawn/ between dog & wolf


Explanation:
twilight= between dawn and sunrise or between sunset and dusk


    Reference: http://us.penguingroup.com/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,9781594203...
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twilight
perledelune
Tunisia
Local time: 02:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Jocelyne Cuenin: something has gone wrong here. Si c'est le crépuscule, cela ne peut pas durer toute la nuit :-)
6 mins

disagree  cc in nyc: "between dusk and dawn" = night; it's also at odds with the "Twilight' Wiki. The Penguin Group "dog/wolf" reference is the wrong tack and says "We all have it in us to be transformed from dog into wolf"; a literal translation won't work here.
39 mins

disagree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Cf CC in NYC
1 hr

agree  Anne R
15 hrs

disagree  Clive Phillips: As per cc in nyc.
17 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
een


Explanation:
I'm finding some references for 'poet's dusk = een', in crosswords, apparently... but I have no idea what it means :)

Cyril B.
France
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  cc in nyc: That's "e'en" for "evening" (no apostrophes in crosswords!); see the enttry for "e'en" in http://dictionary.reference.com – and neither do many Anglophones know what it is. Very poetic.
11 mins

neutral  Rachel Fell: yes, as cc says, it needs an apostrophe (in poetry, etc., it can also mean "even") ; eventide
29 mins

neutral  Tony M: e'en wouldn't really fit in the given context, it's VERY archaic / poetic
3 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
wordplay on day/night


Explanation:
Some poetic variances to try and convey a sense of the FR emphasis on change and transition from one state to another.

As the day yields to the night...
As the day slowly gives way to the night...
The day slowly fades / blends into the night...

...sinister shadows swallow the light.
...brooding shadows creep into the light.

Of course, it all depends on the rest of the poem, and rhyme is not necessary (and might even be inappropriate).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2012-09-16 20:42:21 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

...night extinguishes the dying embers of the day...
...shadows creep over the dying embers of the day...

Perhaps inquiétante can be rendered by dread or dreadful:
...light of the day gives way to the dread of the night...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 hrs (2012-09-16 21:23:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

One last try; still battling to capture the sense of transformation, of the metamorphosis of day into night:

...twisted/warped/writhing shadows... (swallow the light, creep over the dying embers, dance the samba).
...cunning shadows... (as in deceitful, forms are hard to distinguish, illusory).

Wolf Draeger
South Africa
Local time: 03:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 28
Grading comment
Thank you very much, your suggestions have been most helpful to me!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  cc in nyc: These are nice.
12 mins
  -> Thanks cc :-)

agree  Word Pass: I also like your alternatives, very poetic.
39 mins
  -> Thanks Susan.

agree  Tony M
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Tony.

agree  Yolanda Broad: I really like "dying embers"
4 hrs
  -> Thanks Yolanda.

neutral  Kate Collyer: I'm not *disagreeing* here, but it's not a poem! Asker has stated it's a short story, so any poetic effect has to be tempered by that.
8 hrs
  -> Tks Kate; yes, I agree; I tried for a more prosaic effect with my later suggestions, but you have a point, less embellishment may be required here.

agree  Sonia Geerlings: great suggestions
10 hrs
  -> Thanks Sonia.
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
as the shadows lengthened


Explanation:
as an alternative, to get away a bit from twilight, dusk, etc. It also has slightly creepy connotations.

...as shadows lengthened and daylight gradually gave way to an unnerving(??) darkness...

I also like Rachel's "as night drew in"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2012-09-17 07:56:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------



or of course, there's always: IN THE GATHERING GLOOM

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:22
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 76

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Yolanda Broad: I like the idea of "deepening" shadows.
34 mins
  -> many thanks Yolanda!

agree  Helen Shiner
35 mins
  -> many thanks Helen!

neutral  Tony M: Not really: the s/ means 'twilight', hence after the sun has set, thus no shadows; I think this is a different metaphor and wouldn't fit too well here. But 'chien/loup' definitely means 'twilight', no sun left.
1 hr
  -> thanks Tony, but according to Chambers: twilight = "faint light after sunset and before sunrise;... dim light or partial darkness", so a definite possibility of shadows!But maybe I should have used "deepening" or something more sinister as an alternative

disagree  cc in nyc: Shadows after sunset? How does that work? // In twilight, all is shadow as sunlight is gone; shadows lengthen in the afternoon, until sunset. When there are shadows, there is enough sunlight to see the difference "entre chien et loup."
18 hrs
  -> but it isn't quite dark! (see Chambers definition in Suggestions Box)! I'm trying to see the difference between my shadows and all the ones you have agreed with! And how about "in the gathering gloom"?//You haven't addressed either of these 2 questions!
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
at that time of creeping darkness


Explanation:
one other way to define that time of the day/night, when the unknown is taking over..?

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:22
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
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23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the night approaching...


Explanation:
"entre chien et loup, la clarté du jour se mue peu à peu en une obscurité inquiétante"

...with the night approaching, little by little, daylight turns into a frightening darkness...

axies
Australia
Local time: 11:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
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Reference comments


47 mins
Reference: Blog discussion

Reference information:
Might be interesting to read, but nothing better here than polyglot's suggestion.


    Reference: http://www.nakedtranslations.com/en/2004/entre-chien-et-loup
cc in nyc
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12
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