Dans le moindre risque pris

English translation: Whenever we take the slightest risk

01:19 May 18, 2010

French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / scholarly article

French term or phrase: Dans le moindre risque pris

I understand the meaning out of context, but not in.

The author is discussing the essence of prison, and writes: "Dans le moindre risque pris, la prison est visée, consentie, désirée sans être pervertie. Elle est l'un des enjeux d'un jeu avec la vie, avec la mort."

I wrote, "In the least risky case, the prison is aimed for, agreed to, desired without being corrupted. It is one of the stakes in a gamble with life and death."

But I'm not sure I've translated "dans le moindre risque pris" accurately—once more, I'm wondering if I'm looking at an idiom or a formula.

Bonus question: I'm not sure if I translated "visée" or "consentie" properly, either. Or if I should just keep "pervertie" as perverted instead of corrupted.

Note: This is from the same article as my earlier "écrire à sa manière" question.

ameliacf KudoZ activity Questions: 17 (1 open) (2 closed without grading) Answers: 1
Local time: 14:53

English translation:Whenever we take the slightest risk

Explanation:
Just a suggestion, maybe the whole thing could be rephrased along the following lines:
Whenever we take the slightest risk (or a risk, however small, as Melissa said), we have prison in view, we agree to it, desire it...
Presumably the prison is not "perverted" (ie turned away from its original goal) by our desire, but I agree with Melissa it is not very clear.
The use of "désirée" and "pervertie" in the same sentence suggests a psychoanalytical reference, but it hard for us to see exactly what kind of theoretical slant and therefore help you with any accuracy. Perhaps I should have posted all this as discussion.

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Note added at 2 days6 hrs (2010-05-20 07:34:26 GMT) Post-grading
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Thank you!

Selected response from:

Susan Nicholls
Local time: 05:53

Grading comment

4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +2

Whenever we take the slightest risk

Susan Nicholls

In the least risk we take

Melissa McMahon

Discussion entries: 11

ameliacf

ASKER

16:39 May 18, 2010

Also, it is really quite difficult, even in context, to tell if theauthor means society is running the risk, or the criminal is running the risk—I believe, after some careful thought, that there's a change of perspective; it's society running the risk, and the criminal "desiring" the prison. It's still very ambiguous though.

ameliacf

ASKER

16:36 May 18, 2010

I should add that the article is about Kafka. ;) But the author DOES seem to be generalizing about prison in the real world...almost in a Foucouldian way (although he doesn't mention Foucault, and for that I am thankful.)

Susan Nicholls

14:26 May 18, 2010

BD: I spent the morning in a Spanish courts building and that was enough for me!

B D Finch

France

@ Susan

14:20 May 18, 2010

I suppose that desiring prison (especially a French one) seemed so unlikely that I just overlooked the grammar.

Susan Nicholls

13:01 May 18, 2010

I would have thought all the feminine adjectives referred to the prison "tout bêtement" but I may be missing something. Genet is probably irrelevant here, though he does seem to be something of a reference for discussions of prison and literature (if that is what this in fact is!).

B D Finch

France

@ Susan

12:21 May 18, 2010

It was the "we" that confused me. I admit not having read Genet, but would have thought what was desired was the risk, rather than prison itself.

Susan Nicholls

12:08 May 18, 2010

BD: I was reading it as the citizen who, in taking the risk of breaking the law in fact accepts the possibility of going to prison, possibly desires it, etc.., in other words takes a gamble where the stakes are perfectly clear (I am actually imagining it is an article on prison literature but I could be entirely wrong! This is a form of reasoning which comes up in Genet, for example...).

Philippa Smith

pervertie

09:34 May 18, 2010

I think what Susan says could be right, that the function of the prison is not being altered in any way by the desire for it, i.e. it still remains a prison, a form of punishment, it is not being transformed into a different concept. Maybe you could use something with "integrity" - the prison as a concept that retains its integrity, the desire for it not causing a loss of integrity??

B D Finch

France

Context

07:35 May 18, 2010

Who is taking the risk? I read it as being the criminal, while Melissa and Susan seem to read it as being society or the administrative/judicial authorities. This would make a considerable difference to the translation.

Ingeborg Gowans (X)

Canada

oops

01:56 May 18, 2010

"understanding", of course

Ingeborg Gowans (X)

Canada

just a hunch

01:55 May 18, 2010

my unerstnading would be: in the least.. but just a thought; not sure enough to post as an answer

Answers

53 mins confidence:

In the least risk we take

Explanation:
In the sense of "In any risk we take, however small."

It seems to me that the author is saying that prison is an implied stake in any risk we engage in.

In that sense, I understand "visée" here as "in mind" or "referred to", rather than "aimed at"... I think "visée, consentie, désirée" is supposed to show increasing levels of attachment, so from just "in one's sights" to "agreed to" to "desired"

Not so sure about the "pervertie"... it's meaning here isn't clear to me.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2010-05-19 01:12:22 GMT)
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Re: the discussion on who the subject is here. I actually thought of it as any of us once we engage in criminal behaviour, but it is probably more likely to be the 'career' criminal. I don't think it's society.

If you watch enough of the Wire, you do see prison as part of The Game, and indeed as presenting advantages over freedom. That aside, I do think the analysis is on the level of unconscious desires, eg. you know prison is a possible consequence of crime, so if you keep committing crimes you are betraying a desire for prison. Or crime as a kind of suicidal (or "anomale") behaviour...

Melissa McMahon
Australia
Local time: 05:53
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thank you so much! I picked Susan Nichols' as most helpful because what I went with was closer to hers, but your explanation was excellent.

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

Whenever we take the slightest risk

Susan Nicholls
Local time: 05:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 48

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English translation: Whenever we take the slightest risk

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