raisonner dans

English translation: to reason in terms of

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:raisonner dans
English translation:to reason in terms of

14:37 Feb 8, 2011
    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2011-02-11 16:54:15 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)


French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
French term or phrase: raisonner dans
"on n’y raisonne pas dans la nécessité du fait accompli, mais dans la contingence du fait à accomplir"

My draft version is "what is argued here is not the necessity of accomplished facts, but the contingence of facts to be accomplished". Specifically I'm not sure about the preposition "dans" following "raisonner" (which probably does not mean "reason" here). Dans le cadre de?

This is a quote from Louis Althusser's Materialism of the Encounter essay.
Gwidon Naskrent
Poland
Local time: 13:07
to reason in terms of
Explanation:
When quoting from a published work, it is always worth checking whether there is an established translation into the target language.

See the translation below:

"... one reasons here not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished . . . all the elements are both here and beyond [là et au-delà]"
http://www.generation-online.org/p/suchting_althusser.pdf


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Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:09:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I note Richard Nice's comment that Wal Suchting may have translated this himself. If that is the case, I think that Suchting's credentials as a scholar of Althusser are good enough to accept his translation.

Here is another published example of Wal Suchting's wording from An Althusserian Lexicon, Vittorio Morfino, translated by Jason Smith :

'"Before the accomplishment of the fact, before the world, there is only the non-accomplishment of the fact, the non-world that is merely the unreal existence of the atoms" (Althusser 1994a: 556). The same logic is present in Machiavelli, "not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished"...'
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4no2_2005/morfino_lexicon.h...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:16:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I note Richard Nice's comment that Wal Suchting may have translated the above himself. If this is the case, then I think that Suchting's credentials as a scholar and writer on Althusser are good enough to support his translation.

Also note the same quotation used in An Althusserian Lexicon, Vittorio Morfino, translated by Jason Smith :

'"Before the accomplishment of the fact, before the world, there is only the non-accomplishment of the fact, the non-world that is merely the unreal existence of the atoms" (Althusser 1994a: 556). The same logic is present in Machiavelli, "not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished" ...'
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4no2_2005/morfino_lexicon.h...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:17:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry about the duplication above. However, the first note seemed to have disappeared into the ether.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 13:07
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3to reason in terms of
B D Finch
4 -1one does not/ we do not.. rationalize
Gabriella Bertelmann


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
one does not/ we do not.. rationalize


Explanation:
on ne raisonne pas

not rationalize the need to/for..

Gabriella Bertelmann
Local time: 05:07
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Alan Douglas (X): To rationalize/rationalise (= rationaliser, rendre rationnel) and raisonner (to reason) are not the same thing in French or English.
1 hr
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29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
to reason in terms of


Explanation:
When quoting from a published work, it is always worth checking whether there is an established translation into the target language.

See the translation below:

"... one reasons here not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished . . . all the elements are both here and beyond [là et au-delà]"
http://www.generation-online.org/p/suchting_althusser.pdf


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:09:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I note Richard Nice's comment that Wal Suchting may have translated this himself. If that is the case, I think that Suchting's credentials as a scholar of Althusser are good enough to accept his translation.

Here is another published example of Wal Suchting's wording from An Althusserian Lexicon, Vittorio Morfino, translated by Jason Smith :

'"Before the accomplishment of the fact, before the world, there is only the non-accomplishment of the fact, the non-world that is merely the unreal existence of the atoms" (Althusser 1994a: 556). The same logic is present in Machiavelli, "not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished"...'
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4no2_2005/morfino_lexicon.h...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:16:10 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I note Richard Nice's comment that Wal Suchting may have translated the above himself. If this is the case, then I think that Suchting's credentials as a scholar and writer on Althusser are good enough to support his translation.

Also note the same quotation used in An Althusserian Lexicon, Vittorio Morfino, translated by Jason Smith :

'"Before the accomplishment of the fact, before the world, there is only the non-accomplishment of the fact, the non-world that is merely the unreal existence of the atoms" (Althusser 1994a: 556). The same logic is present in Machiavelli, "not in terms of the Necessity of the accomplished fact, but in terms of the contingency of the fact to be accomplished" ...'
http://www.borderlands.net.au/vol4no2_2005/morfino_lexicon.h...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2011-02-08 19:17:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry about the duplication above. However, the first note seemed to have disappeared into the ether.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 13:07
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 10
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Alan Douglas (X)
25 mins
  -> Thanks Alan

agree  Jim Tucker (X): o
37 mins
  -> Thanks Jim

agree  Transitwrite
2 hrs
  -> Thanks

neutral  Richard Nice: seems 'reasonable' enough but Wal S. seems to have done it ad hoc himself? Only French version is cited there
3 hrs
  -> You could be right, though it is very similar to some other translations. See note that I am about to post.
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