Pour ampliation et par urgence

English translation: expeditious/urgent certification (as true copy of discharge order)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:Pour ampliation et par urgence
English translation:expeditious/urgent certification (as true copy of discharge order)
Entered by: Yvonne Gallagher

09:41 Mar 15, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Other / Arrêté
French term or phrase: Pour ampliation et par urgence
Appears above the signature on an arrêté de sortie for a psychiatric patient produced in the 1940s. It's the "par urgence" part that I'd like clarification on. Is it simply that they were asked to produce the document as a matter of urgency?
FionaMarshall
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:24
expeditious/urgent certification (as true copy of discharge order)
Explanation:
It's unclear because of lack of context if this is about the urgent discharge (or release) of the patient but it would seem so.

However, what is certain is that the release order (document) must be certified as a true copy. At that time, patients were kept in involuntary confinement unless someone signed a discharge (release) order

If this was during the 1940s it could have been during the war years or after when it was important to discharge as many psychiatric patients as possible as there was insufficient food and patients were starving in some cases. See here:

https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_VING_076_0099--the-ment...

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/43/suppl_1/i43/2938629

https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ps.201...

and more modern times
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5618891/

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Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2019-03-17 12:48:55 GMT)
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http://www.wordreference.com/fren/ampliation
Selected response from:

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 01:24
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +2expeditious/urgent certification (as true copy of discharge order)
Yvonne Gallagher
4 -2a copy for expeditious distribution
Francois Boye
4 -3for validation and urgent action
Daryo
Summary of reference entries provided
Daryo

Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


2 days 2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
expeditious/urgent certification (as true copy of discharge order)


Explanation:
It's unclear because of lack of context if this is about the urgent discharge (or release) of the patient but it would seem so.

However, what is certain is that the release order (document) must be certified as a true copy. At that time, patients were kept in involuntary confinement unless someone signed a discharge (release) order

If this was during the 1940s it could have been during the war years or after when it was important to discharge as many psychiatric patients as possible as there was insufficient food and patients were starving in some cases. See here:

https://www.cairn-int.info/article-E_VING_076_0099--the-ment...

https://academic.oup.com/ije/article/43/suppl_1/i43/2938629

https://ps.psychiatryonline.org/doi/full/10.1176/appi.ps.201...

and more modern times
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5618891/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 3 hrs (2019-03-17 12:48:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.wordreference.com/fren/ampliation

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 01:24
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: what is "urgent" is not the "certification" but the action prescribed by the document. // it doesn't need to be spelled out - same as you don't need to tell a linguist that "interpreting" is talking, not writing ...
19 hrs
  -> we don't know that for sure, unless asker can confirm from their full context//seems like you keep changing your mind about meaning

agree  Ph_B (X): See discussion.
1 day 2 hrs
  -> yes, thank you!

disagree  Francois Boye: DR. ADMIN. ,,Copie d'une décision administrative délivrée par l'autorité compétente et revêtue d'une signature officielle.`` (Barr. 1967). Ampliation d'un arrêté préfectoral (Nouv. Lar. ill.). Synon. vieilli acte d'ampliation ou acte ampliatif
2 days 13 hrs
  ->  tit-for-tat disagree. No linguistic reason.//We're looking for En not Fr? And asking about what "urgent" implies here? ampliation=certified copy here: https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-general/176...

agree  writeaway: don't see how this is wrong. but hey it's Kudozzzzzzz
18 days
  -> Yezz indeed! Thanks:-)

agree  GILOU
24 days
  -> Many thanks:-)

agree  Michael Confais
254 days
  -> Many thanks:-)
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2 days 22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -3
for validation and urgent action


Explanation:
or
for certification (of the validity of the document) and urgent (action)

Here dates are important: the 1940's "pour ampliation"didn't mean the same as today - see refs.

At that time "pour ampliation" meant "I (the signatory) confirm that this is a copy of a valid document - duly signed by an authorised person"

Notice that IT'S NOT the same as "copie conforme" which simply means "an exact copy of the original" and nothing more - nothing to say that the original could not be a worthless fake signed by Mickey Mouse.

OTOH the "par urgence" part means the same as today: "the matter is urgent" (no connections with how quickly the document was prepared)

Urgence = DR. CIVIL. ,,Caractère d'un état de fait susceptible d'entraîner un préjudice irréparable s'il n'y est porté remède à bref délai`(TLFi)

"le remède" is not a piece of paper prepared in great haste (and then possibly ignored for ages) but urgent action i.e. here "patient to be released urgently" [ever heard of decisions that not even worth the paper they are printed on? As in "prepared/made urgently" but executed without any urgency ...]

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 01:24
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: Over-translation. If the document is certified urgently perhaps patient will be discharged urgently but it doesn't say that.//Translate what's actually there! Not to do with "preparing " document but validation of true copy//I never mentioned Xerox!
5 hrs
  -> What the point of finding the meaning of a term as it was at the time when it was used if you are going to blissfully ignore it? FOI at that time a "computer" was a person doing calculations with pen and paper, and an abacus if "high tech".

disagree  Francois Boye: DR. ADMIN. ,,Copie d'une décision administrative délivrée par l'autorité compétente et revêtue d'une signature officielle.`` (Barr. 1967). Ampliation d'un arrêté préfectoral (Nouv. Lar. ill.). Synon. vieilli acte d'ampliation ou acte ampliatif
1 day 18 hrs
  -> ??? WHERE is the contradiction??? Have you again misinterpreted a perfectly valid reference?

disagree  GILOU: calque insignifiant
23 days
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3 days 3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
a copy for expeditious distribution


Explanation:
My translation is consistent with the definition of 'ampliation' below

− DR. ADMIN. ,,Copie d'une décision administrative délivrée par l'autorité compétente et revêtue d'une signature officielle.`` (Barr. 1967). Ampliation d'un arrêté préfectoral (Nouv. Lar. ill.). Synon. vieilli acte d'ampliation ou acte ampliatif :
2. Le représentant Duputz reçut quelques heures plus tard de nos mains ampliation du décret... V. Hugo, Histoire d'un crime,1877, p. 7.

3. ... déjà à plusieurs reprises, poursuivi de l'idée fixe de repartir le lendemain muni de ses ampliations, il s'était fait envoyer de l'argent; des mandats de cinquante francs, laborieusement arrachés à l'âpre épargne de la conservatrice. G. Courteline, Messieurs les ronds-de-cuir,1893, 5etabl., pp. 183-184.

Source: Le Dictionnaire TLFI

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 20:24
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 23

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: you missed the KEY point: at that time "pour ampliation' meant to confirm that the original document was properly signed i.e. valid. + it's NOT "the distribution" of the document that is urgent, but the action ordered in it
19 hrs
  -> − DR. ADMIN. ,,Copie d'une décision administrative délivrée par l'autorité compétente et revêtue d'une signature officielle.`` (Barr. 1967). Ampliation d'un arrêté préfectoral (Nouv. Lar. ill.). Synon. vieilli acte d'ampliation ou acte ampliatif :

disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: "copy" is too vague and your "explanation" does not back "distribution" at all" (it's wrong!)//Why keep reposting the same definition of one word, when it doesn't back your answer, and not even answer the actual question asked?
22 hrs
  -> − DR. ADMIN. ,,Copie d'une décision administrative délivrée par l'autorité compétente et revêtue d'une signature officielle.`` (Barr. 1967). Ampliation d'un arrêté préfectoral (Nouv. Lar. ill.). Synon. vieilli acte d'ampliation ou acte ampliatif :
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Reference comments


2 hrs
Reference

Reference information:
L'ampliation ( signature "pour ampliation") est née de l'impossibilité de faire des copies signées d'un acte officiel à l'époque où la photocopie n'existait pas. L'autorité signait l'acte original, qui était conservé par l'administration. Cet original était copié à la main, et plus tard de façon dactylographiée, autant de fois que de besoin, parfois même bien après que l'auteur ne soit plus en fonction.

La copie était dépourvue de la signature de l'auteur original, mais portait la mention "signé" devant le nom de l'auteur de l'acte original. Dépourvue de la signature de l'auteur, elle ne pouvait être certifiée conforme. L'agent de l'administration qui procédait à la notification de la copie de acte, signait alors la copie "pour ampliation". Cela authentifiait la copie en attestant que le document original portait bien cette signature.

Il est donc normal et légal que l'ampliation ne comporte pas la signature de l'auteur de l'acte original5.

Toutefois, au début du xixe siècle et jusqu'à l'invention de la photocopie, les copies carbones, qui comportaient une décalque de la signature de l'auteur, faisaient quand même l’objet d'une ampliation. De même pour les premières photocopies apparues progressivement dans les années 1960. L'usage a ensuite été abandonnée plus ou moins vite.

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampliation

Daryo
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  Ph_B (X): "It's the "par urgence" part that I'd like clarification on..." :-)
1 min
  -> yes, but it helps to know what was the meaning of the other half of the term at that time... Context?
neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: as Ph_B said above, it's about the "par urgence" part that I'd like clarification on..." We already know what 'ampliation' means//??
3 days 23 hrs
  -> "we already know all this"? I wasn't aware that the usual lot of translators is to work day in day out on archive documents dating from 80-odd years ago ... no need to bother with the evolution of the language that happened in the meantime, then?
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