n\'y a d\'intelligence sans organe

English translation: There's no intelligence without a brain

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:n'y a d\'intelligence sans organe
English translation:There's no intelligence without a brain
Entered by: B D Finch

06:23 Nov 15, 2018
French to English translations [PRO]
Science - Music
French term or phrase: n\'y a d\'intelligence sans organe
Here’s the complete sentence:

car, il n'y a pas d'observation désincarnée de toute action physique, pas plus qu'il n'y a d'intelligence sans organe ni d'homme sans corps

Here’s my translation:

For there is no disembodied observation of any physical action, no more than there is intelligence without an organ or a person without a body.
Niedz
Netherlands
There's no intelligence without a brain
Explanation:
I think that use of the word "brain" is essential. "Organ" just doesn't work in English, which is a shame because, if it could be used, there'd be a nice musical reference. "Mind" is self-referential, so it also doesn't work and it fails to link the conceptual with the physical entity.

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Note added at 3 hrs (2018-11-15 10:10:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Omit the "There's no", as that doesn't fit in with the text.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 16:27
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +4There's no intelligence without a brain
B D Finch
2 +4without a physical organ
Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
2 -1there is no intelligence without mind
SafeTex
Summary of reference entries provided
Descartes, mind-body dualism/-ity
Nikki Scott-Despaigne

  

Answers


11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): -1
there is no intelligence without mind


Explanation:
Hello

I think this is what it is. I wouldn't use "brain" personally here

SafeTex
France
Local time: 16:27
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Sandra & Kenneth Grossman: mind is not an organ, and is not opposed to "intelligence"
26 mins
  -> Brain is the physical organ but "mind" fits better in my opinion.

disagree  Daryo: that's not what is said in the ST - the point made is in the necessity for some material support / tangible container for the "intelligence". // same as the fact that any kind of "software" can not exist without IT "hardware" as its container / support
7 hrs

neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: As this is about Catersian-type duality of body and mind, then (the immaterial) "mind" becomes a synonym of intelligence. Unfortunately, this suggesstion does not distinguish the immaterial from the material so it does not work here.
5 days
  -> Hello Nikki. I prefer "mind" but accept "brain". Not "organ" though and I'm surprised by the support for that suggestion. Regards
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +4
without a physical organ


Explanation:
or even physical brain.

This is about the dichotomy between the physical and the spiritual;

Sandra & Kenneth Grossman
Israel
Local time: 17:27
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RomanianRomanian
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  SafeTex: you were kind enough not to give me a disagree so I will do the same and say that my foot is a physical organ too. I expected someone to say "brain" but not this
1 hr

agree  GILOU
3 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  Daryo: or "without a physical support" // "brain" is no good - the ST doesn't say anything specific about the type of "intelligence"
7 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: I think it might be more natural English with THE physical organ.
7 hrs
  -> Thanks!

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I like "physical brain". This is basically about Cartesian-type mind-body duality, as indicated in the phrases before and after the one in question. The solution needs to point to a clear distinction between the two.
5 days
  -> Thanks!
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
n'y a d'intelligence sans organe
There's no intelligence without a brain


Explanation:
I think that use of the word "brain" is essential. "Organ" just doesn't work in English, which is a shame because, if it could be used, there'd be a nice musical reference. "Mind" is self-referential, so it also doesn't work and it fails to link the conceptual with the physical entity.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2018-11-15 10:10:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Omit the "There's no", as that doesn't fit in with the text.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 16:27
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M
2 hrs
  -> Thanks Tony

neutral  Daryo: you are forgetting that there is also "Artificial Intelligence" - and the ST is not specific - it's not necessarily ONLY about human intelligence. // AI can also "exist" only if there is some physical support - not a "brain" but some IT hardware.
3 hrs
  -> That depends upon the status assigned to AI. However, the ST is about the need for a physical "organe" and I don't see how that could apply to AI. It can, however, apply to non-human animals.

agree  Yvonne Gallagher: nothing to do with AI that I can see!
4 hrs
  -> Thanks Yvonne

agree  Nicole Acher
13 hrs
  -> Thanks Nicole

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Descartes an' all that. So yes, no intelligence with a brain, or even "physical brain" as suggested by Sandra and Kenneth.//Nothing to do with AI, not in this part of the text.
4 days
  -> Thanks Nikki. I think you meant "without"!
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Reference comments


5 days
Reference: Descartes, mind-body dualism/-ity

Reference information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind–body_dualism

Mind–body dualism, or mind–body duality, is a view in the philosophy of mind that mental phenomena are, in some respects, non-physical,[1] or that the mind and body are distinct and separable.[2] Thus, it encompasses a set of views about the relationship between mind and matter, and between subject and object, and is contrasted with other positions, such as physicalism and enactivism, in the mind–body problem.[1][2]

Aristotle shared Plato's view of multiple souls and further elaborated a hierarchical arrangement, corresponding to the distinctive functions of plants, animals, and people: a nutritive soul of growth and metabolism that all three share; a perceptive soul of pain, pleasure, and desire that only people and other animals share; and the faculty of reason that is unique to people only. In this view, a soul is the hylomorphic form of a viable organism, wherein each level of the hierarchy formally supervenes upon the substance of the preceding level. Thus, for Aristotle, all three souls perish when the living organism dies.[3][4] For Plato however, the soul was not dependent on the physical body; he believed in metempsychosis, the migration of the soul to a new physical body.[5]

Dualism is closely associated with the thought of René Descartes (1641), which holds that the mind is a nonphysical—and therefore, non-spatial—substance. Descartes clearly identified the mind with consciousness and self-awareness and distinguished this from the brain as the seat of intelligence.[6] Hence, he was the first to formulate the mind–body problem in the form in which it exists today.[7] Dualism is contrasted with various kinds of monism. Substance dualism is contrasted with all forms of materialism, but property dualism may be considered a form of emergent materialism or non-reductive physicalism in some sense.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7
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