pour communication conforme

English translation: duly certified as delivered (to the parties)

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:(CH) pour communication conforme
English translation:duly certified as delivered (to the parties)
Entered by: AllegroTrans

17:08 Apr 30, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Court order (Switzerland)
French term or phrase: pour communication conforme
At the end of a court order (divorce) which has been sent to both parties. It is followed by the signature of the Clerk of the division of the Court.

Certified served?
AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:09
(E&W: duly sealed) duly certified as delivered
Explanation:
In descending order of CL - confidence level of 4-3-2, but query of accuracy.

Sealing of a writ or judgment / decree by the UK courts means publication pre-service.

cf. the Swiss-German of an oral or written disclosure by 'Eröffnung' - see the first web ref. > ohne *vorangehende mündliche Eröffnung* - without antecedent oral communication.

I can't match the previous ProZ answer of certified true to the French, as I thought the decree needs to be read out in the first instance or else 'communicated' by some other means.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2020-04-30 22:44:42 GMT)
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Yes. I believe this is *certified as duly communicated (read out and/or otherwise delivered)*, albeit pre-service, rather than being true to an original of the decree.

In England & Wales / on the Brit. Isles, I think this would simply be 'duly sealed', again pre-service.

'For an application to register a mainland judgment under the MJREO (and O.71A of the RHC), applicants must provide: The mainland judgment, duly sealed by the original court.' https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-618-8241?transi...

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Note added at 20 heures (2020-05-01 13:27:31 GMT)
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Le présent jugement est communiqué aux parties pour notification aux parties > again 'communication' is used in the sense of disclosure or release for service of the decree. My hunch is still that this is a 'judgment duly /sealed and) delivered for service upon the parties'.
Selected response from:

Adrian MM.
United Kingdom
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1[this] Communication [is] certified as [being] conform to the original (by)
Daryo
4For certified copy
Cathy Rosamond
2 +1(E&W: duly sealed) duly certified as delivered
Adrian MM.
3 -1for/as compliant communication
Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Summary of reference entries provided
it's in the Pros glossary
Timothy Rake

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
for/as compliant communication


Explanation:
In order to fulfil the comunication procedure.

Juan Arturo Blackmore Zerón
Mexico
Local time: 12:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: wrong meaning of "conforme"
1 day 4 hrs
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
For certified copy


Explanation:
Copie certifiée conforme.

Cathy Rosamond
French Guiana
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
(E&W: duly sealed) duly certified as delivered


Explanation:
In descending order of CL - confidence level of 4-3-2, but query of accuracy.

Sealing of a writ or judgment / decree by the UK courts means publication pre-service.

cf. the Swiss-German of an oral or written disclosure by 'Eröffnung' - see the first web ref. > ohne *vorangehende mündliche Eröffnung* - without antecedent oral communication.

I can't match the previous ProZ answer of certified true to the French, as I thought the decree needs to be read out in the first instance or else 'communicated' by some other means.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2020-04-30 22:44:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes. I believe this is *certified as duly communicated (read out and/or otherwise delivered)*, albeit pre-service, rather than being true to an original of the decree.

In England & Wales / on the Brit. Isles, I think this would simply be 'duly sealed', again pre-service.

'For an application to register a mainland judgment under the MJREO (and O.71A of the RHC), applicants must provide: The mainland judgment, duly sealed by the original court.' https://uk.practicallaw.thomsonreuters.com/1-618-8241?transi...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 heures (2020-05-01 13:27:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Le présent jugement est communiqué aux parties pour notification aux parties > again 'communication' is used in the sense of disclosure or release for service of the decree. My hunch is still that this is a 'judgment duly /sealed and) delivered for service upon the parties'.

Example sentence(s):
  • CH: ­ 1.2 Communication du dossier et du jugement L'article 43 alinéa 5 OEC prévoit que la *communication a lieu après l'entrée en force* de la décision... Dans les cas prévus à l'article 463 CPC, le jugement est *communiqué au Parqu
  • UK: Practice Direction 5B - Communication and Filing of Documents by e-mail

    Reference: http://eng.proz.com/kudoz/german-to-english/law-general/1235...
    Reference: http://divorce.ch/tout-sur-le-divorce/apres-le-divorce/attes...
Adrian MM.
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 160
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, thanks, you confirm that this is about delivery rather than anything being "true"

Asker: Thanks. This was a translator's trap if ever there was one and I am glad the question remains "pro"


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: why would "le greffier" need to certify that "this copy has been delivered" on the copy that was "delivered"? What makes more sense is "this copy was made to be delivered ('communicated')" as opposed to say a copy made for archives.
23 hrs
  -> Misunderstanding - the Registrar is certfying that the decree has been 'delivered' > bon pour ..., + pls. check up on the process of the court sealing of judgments 'Le présent jugement est communiqué aux parties pour notification aux parties le 20 janv.'

agree  ph-b: Not sure I've understood everything, but I think I agree with your note added at 20 hrs. See discussion.
2 days 21 hrs
  -> Thx and merci. Your discussion entry suggests you have seen through the 'certified copy' clanger. So. 1. preface with `bon pour...' and 2. think in terms of duly communicated e.g. 'sealed' (court-stamped for delivery) pre-service of decree on the parties.
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1 day 4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
[this] Communication [is] certified as [being] conform to the original (by)


Explanation:
"communication" = the sending of the present text/document // the content of this document

"conforme" = the present text is "conform to" the original text of the court's decision

"pour" = the signature of "le greffier" that follows is apposed in order to certify/confirm that the present "communication" is "conform" to the original decision kept in the court archives.

I can't see what else could make sense.

(1) A copy to be of any value needs to be certified as "being exactly the same" as the original;

(2) "le greffier" has access to the original AND the authority to confirm that the copy is a "true copy";

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Note added at 1 day 5 hrs (2020-05-01 22:37:23 GMT)
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There is a sample of "pour communication conforme" used in a non-legal context, but still in Switzerland:

Le Bibliomane Moderne : Bibliophilie et autres Bibliomanies ...
par Bertrand Hugonnard-Roche

MARDI 18 MAI 2010
Quelques informations de nos amis du Daumier Register.

.....


Cordialement,

Dieter et Liliane Noack
Daumier Register

Pour communication conforme,
Bonne soirée,
Bertrand

http://le-bibliomane.blogspot.com/2010/05/quelques-informati...

and from the context it would mean "we have presented here the information we received from ... exactly as it was given to us" -

same idea of "copie conforme".



Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:09
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 171
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks Daryo, but just as a note I used to work in a County Court office and we did regularly certify that orders has been sent to both parties - however this was always stamped on the copy kept by the court; things may be different in Switzerland though


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Adrian MM.: The phrase is short for: *bon* pour communication conforme. Acknowledged as forwarded. Nothing to do with certified copies. You, like me, ought to remember this formulation as shorthand for acknowledgement of such matters as a rent and sale price receipt.
10 hrs
  -> well, if you see as a short version of s.t. else, it could be. From the samples I found, in its own it would mean what I've given as answer.

agree  Sebastian Witte: The clerk of the court mentioned certifies the Registry's transcription (which might also be that of the actual clerk of the court, acting as a court reporter) of the verbal or possibly written original version of the court order to be accurate.
11 hrs
  -> Thanks!
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Reference comments


5 mins peer agreement (net): +5
Reference: it's in the Pros glossary

Reference information:
"certified as true"


    https://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/law-patents/482536-pour-communication-conforme.html
Timothy Rake
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 36
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thanks Timothy but I am not satisfied that this is simply certifying that something is true


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Matt Finizio
2 mins
agree  EirTranslations
40 mins
agree  Michael Grabczan-Grabowski: Depending on the context, I would add something like "The contents herein are certified as true," instead of simply saying "Certified as true" in isolation. Without seeing the document itself, "certified as true" is probably the most accurate answer.
2 hrs
agree  philgoddard
6 hrs
agree  writeaway
6 hrs
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