e-acte d’avocat

English translation: lawyer's e-record

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:e-acte d’avocat
English translation:lawyer's e-record
Entered by: Adrian MM.

08:27 Oct 21, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
French term or phrase: e-acte d’avocat
Hi, I'm looking for a snappy term for an "acte d'avocat" and, in particular, an "e-acte d’avocat".

see for an explanation: https://www.spark-avocats.com/acte-d-avocat-electronique/

I've seen lawyer's deed used quite a lot, but I'm not sure this conveys the true meaning and it's not necessarily a deed ...
Jane RM
France
Local time: 09:03
lawyer's /court e-filing/ archives > e-record
Explanation:
Funny. I'd have thought e-filing trips off the English tongue or notarial quill pen....
Selected response from:

Adrian MM.
Austria
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1electronic lawyer's instrument
Steve Robbie
3 +1one idea...
Mpoma
4 -1lawyer's /court e-filing/ archives > e-record
Adrian MM.
4 -2Electronic counsel-signed legal instrument
Eliza Hall
3 -1legal e-documentation
AllegroTrans


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
electronic lawyer's instrument


Explanation:
Just to get the ball rolling.

Lawyer's instrument is a literal translation of "acte d'avocat" ("Deed" is too narrrow for "acte").

Given the lack of an anglophone equivalent, I struggle to come up with something pithier that immediately conveys the precise meaning of an "instrument countersigned by the parties' lawyers".

Steve Robbie
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:03
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: loads of info/explanations on the www: https://www.google.com/search?sxsrf=ALeKk02xlDShwEq82dRDn68X...
1 hr

neutral  SafeTex: Hello Steve. Noted that this was a starter. My main doubt is on word order as I can't help but read each time that the lawyer is electronic.
1 hr

neutral  Eliza Hall: Legal instrument, not lawyer's instrument. Otherwise yes. https://definitions.uslegal.com/l/legal-instrument/
1 day 5 hrs
  -> See discussion entry
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
one idea...


Explanation:
i.e. e-acte legal instrument [secure dematerialised legal instrument].

"Virtual" is close to the useful adjective dématérialisé, although the English word perhaps tends to suggest something not quite real. "Dematerialised" is very rarely used in common language in English, but it does appear to be catching on with lawyers.

The fact of its being secure, and of the need to keep the word "e-acte", comes from here: https://www.alain-bensoussan.com/avocats/acte-avocat-electro... :

"le service « acte d’avocat » est disponible sur le portail e-Barreau (2), à travers l’espace e-Acte d’Avocat (ou e-AA) réservé à chaque avocat disposant d’une clé USB servant de canal d’authentification et de certification électronique (RGS**) ; "

... it's part of a specific system, and therefore "e-acte" seems a proprietary name, like "e-Barreau".

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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-10-21 12:37:08 GMT)
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Admittedly this ain't exactly snappy. Good luck with that.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2020-10-21 12:59:25 GMT)
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Of course, the espace is the thing named "e-Acte d'Avocat" in the above quote. But the question has it in lower case and clearly referring to an instrument.

Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Thomas Miles: I certainly this is a valid approach. And we must all stop 'dematerialised' from catching on!
5 hrs

agree  SafeTex: You should perhaps have posted the suggestion "e-acte d'avocat" as I'm not sure how this suggestion is now going to work out on Proz
22 hrs

neutral  Eliza Hall: As a US lawyer, we just say e- or electronic: e-filing, electronic discovery, e-signature...
1 day 2 hrs
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
lawyer's /court e-filing/ archives > e-record


Explanation:
Funny. I'd have thought e-filing trips off the English tongue or notarial quill pen....

Example sentence(s):
  • Electronic Records. As far as your obligation to clients, there is no distinction between paper and electronic record retention
  • CE / Courts Electronic / File is our new electronic filing and case management system.

    Reference: http://www.gov.uk/guidance/ce-file-system-information-and-su...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 86

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Mpoma: Are the two systems so similar that you can really just say "e-filing"? The security of the actions seems very different, and also e-filing seems specific to the Royal Courts of Justice.
45 mins
  -> see the e-record suggestion

neutral  AllegroTrans: Reading the French explanation seems to indicate that this is more about e-preparation of legal documents than the actual filing thereof
22 hrs
  -> see e-record

disagree  Eliza Hall: An e-filing is an electronically filed document in a court case. It's not normally a legal instrument; it could be a motion, brief, etc.
1 day 1 hr
  -> see e-record - that you de novo have simply ignored.
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2 days 7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
Electronic counsel-signed legal instrument


Explanation:
If we want to capture both aspects of this--namely the fact it's a legal instrument, and also that it's signed by both parties and their lawyer(s)--then how about this:

Counsel-signed legal instrument

We don't need to say it was signed by the parties, because by definition legal instruments bare signed at least by whoever is granting the rights (e.g. a deed) and, when the instrument is an agreement, by both parties (e.g. a lease).

The lawyer signature is the unusual detail specific to this type of instrument, so that's what's mentioned in the FR ("acte d'avocat") and in my proposed translation ("counsel-signed legal instrument").

And then, since just adding "e-" would be awkward on such a long phrase, just say "electronic" instead.

This translation doesn't specifically say that BOTH lawyers sign it, but then, neither does the FR original--because it actually doesn't have to be signed by two lawyers:

"L’acte d’Avocat est un acte sous seing privé signé par les parties, mais également par un avocat. La signature de l’avocat donne à cet acte sous seing privé une plus grande sécurité juridique.... Les parties peuvent choisir un seul avocat, chaque partie peut éventuellement se faire assister de son conseil....

Il s’agit d’un écrit destiné à constater l’existence (et apporter la preuve) d’un acte juridique bilatéral (convention) ou unilatéral (testament par exemple). Il peut y avoir une ou plusieurs parties, et un ou plusieurs avocats."
https://www.decayeux-avocat.com/categories/boite-a-outils-25...

More on legal instruments, with boldface to show how this corresponds to the FR term above:

"A legal instrument is a document that contains legally binding information. For example, a formal contract would be a legal instrument, as well as leases and deeds.

Legal instruments often require various signatures in order to be valid and to hold up in a court of law.... Legal instruments are essentially a way for the courts to have proof that certain legally binding agreements have actually taken place."
https://www.justipedia.com/definition/20354/legal-instrument



Eliza Hall
United States
Local time: 04:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 60

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  AllegroTrans: Calling an "avocat" a "counsel" creates confusion. For example, Counsel in E&W is specifically a barrister conducting a case in court
47 mins
  -> Odd that you think that merits a disagree. It can mean barrister, but do you have reference showing it CAN'T simply mean attorney? The Cambridge U dictionary has examples suggesting it can: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/example/english/legal-co...

disagree  Adrian MM.: As Counsel - with a capital 'C' - and Commissioner for Oaths in England + Wales, I used to sign off electronically 'acte' as minutes of meetings as well as 'legal instruments'.
79 days
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1 day 4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
legal e-documentation


Explanation:
I personally would retain the French term, as it is a specific system (and maybe a proprietary name as suggested by Mpoma) for which I doubt there is an exact GB equivalent. I offer this suggestion as an explanatory translation in brackets.

e-acte d’avocat [legal e-documentation]

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Note added at 2 days 8 hrs (2020-10-23 16:27:19 GMT)
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My suggestion is not a translation of the term but an explanation intended to be added in brackets, as I believe the French term should be kept. This is because imo there is no direct equivalent, or maybe even no near equivalent. It seems the French system isn't about the mere filing of documents but there entire preparation and signing. Given that my suggestion is an explanation, translating "actes" by the generic "legal documentation" is hardly "wrong".

AllegroTrans
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 527

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Eliza Hall: An "acte" isn't "documentation." It's a formal legal document that's either binding (a contract) or actually causes legal rights to pass (e.g. a deed).//Hardly ridiculous. Documentation is much too general and has no connotation of being an instrument.
2 hrs
  -> This is a ridiculous duasgree - the e-acte d’avocat system covers all types of documents prepared by French lawyers - my "legal documentation" is intended to cover these, and despite what you say "acte" is used for e.g. pleadings
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