mouvement autonome

English translation: independence movement

16:56 May 18, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Government / Politics / Political movements
French term or phrase: mouvement autonome
I am translating a report about international relations (Turkey - Syria) and in the text, it refers to the Kurdistan Freedom Hawkes as a 'mouvement autonome'

Should this be translated as "separatist movement" in English? I know that mouvement séparatiste exists as a separate term, but it appears that they both refer to separatism in English.

Could anyone with political insight please confirm this?

Many thanks.
Rachael Ellis
Spain
Local time: 05:20
English translation:independence movement
Explanation:
"Mouvement autonome", as Nikki has explained, properly refers to a left-wing group struggling to achieve the autonomy of the proletariat. But that's not what the TAK (Kurdistan Freedom Hawks) is/are. It's a movement aiming, like the PKK, to establish an independent Kurdish state. As is well known, Kurdish territory, Kurdistan, is divided between Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran. Separatism normally implies a region of a recognised state, such as the Basque country and Catalonia in Spain, aspiring to form a separate state. Basque and Catalan separatists aim, in the first instance, to establish separate states within current Spanish territory. They would like to get their hands on bits of France too, but as a secondary aim. In the case of the Kurds, they are seeking separation from all the four states in which their territory lies, though Turkey in the first instance, since that's the biggest bit. Perhaps this is why they've called it "autonome" here instead of "séparatiste". I think you could reflect the distinction, such as it is, by using "independence movement" instead of "separatist movement". At any rate, I believe that's what "mouvement autonome" means here: a movement seeking (territorial) autonomy or independence.
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Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 05:20
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Summary of answers provided
3 +3independence movement
Charles Davis
4autonomous/break-away movement
B D Finch
3 +1autonomous movement, nationalist militant movement
Nikki Scott-Despaigne


  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
autonomous movement, nationalist militant movement


Explanation:
http://www.toupie.org/Dictionnaire/Mouvement_autonome.htm


"Mouvement autonome" (ou "mouvance autonome") est une expression qui désigne un courant politique classé à l'extrême gauche et qui lutte pour l’autonomie du prolétariat par rapport au capitalisme, par rapport à l’Etat, mais également par rapport aux partis et aux syndicats.

Il se caractérise par le rejet des normes politiques dominantes et le refus de laisser d'autres penser et décider à sa place. Comme les anarchistes, les autonomes prônent un "communisme immédiat", c'est-à-dire sans phase de transition.

Le mouvement autonome est apparu en Italie en 1973 sous le nom de "Autonomia Operaia" (Autonomie ouvrière). En France, sa diffusion s'est faite sous l'impulsion de la revue "Camarades". Les différentes sensibilités du mouvement autonome, qu'elles soient issues de l'Internationale Situationniste, de la "Gauche prolétarienne", de pôles étudiants… ont en commun l'opposition aux partis et aux syndicats.

C'est à la fin des années 1970 que les mouvements autonomes ont été les plus actifs : le Groupe "Camarades", les NAPAP (Noyaux armés pour l'autonomie populaire), l'AGPGA (Assemblée générale parisienne des groupes autonomes)… prenant parfois des formes violentes de luttes armées, voire d'attentats (Groupe "Action Directe") dans les années 1980… Depuis, les mouvements autonomes se sont battus principalement pour la défense des squats, des prisonniers, et des sans-papiers.

>>> Terme connexe : Action directe

>>> Terme connexe : Anarcho-autonome

>>> Terme connexe : Autonome

>>> Terme connexe : Opéraïsme

>>> Terme connexe : Ultragauche

>>> Citations du livre : "L'insurrection qui vient"


http://www.toupie.org/Dictionnaire/Separatisme.htm

Etymologie : du latin separare, mettre à parte, avec le suffixe -isme, servant à former des mots correspondant à une attitude, un comportement, une doctrine, un dogme, une idéologie ou une théorie.

Le séparatisme est un mouvement politique qui cherche à séparer une région, une province, un territoire ou un Etat, du pays ou de l'ensemble plus vaste auquel il appartient. Le but est d'obtenir, sur une base territoriale, une reconnaissance politique et de créer un nouvel Etat indépendant. Le séparatisme est souvent associé à un désir de liberté ayant pour origine un sentiment d'oppression de nature coloniale.
Synonyme : indépendantisme.
Exemple : le séparatisme basque, le séparatisme québécois.

Séparatisme social

Synonyme : communautarisme, instauration de ghettos.
Le communautarisme social peut prendre la forme d'une ségrégation urbaine, fondée sur la défiance et le repli sur soi, où chaque classe sociale refuse se mélanger géographiquement ou culturellement avec une autre classe qu'elle considère comme "inférieure".


>>> Terme connexe : Autodétermination

>>> Terme connexe : Autonomie

>>> Terme connexe : Autonomisme

>>> Terme connexe : Déviationnisme

>>> Terme connexe : Emancipation

>>> Terme connexe : Indépendantisme

>>> Terme connexe : Régionalisme

>>> Terme connexe : Sécession

>>> Terme connexe : Souverainisme




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 mins (2017-05-18 17:13:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The big difference between "autonomous" and "separatists" movements is that the latter are seeking independence for a particular region. The latter can also be right or left-wing. The former are essentially left-wing extremists.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 05:20
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 31
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for your help Nikki! Much appreciated.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francois Boye
1 hr
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
independence movement


Explanation:
"Mouvement autonome", as Nikki has explained, properly refers to a left-wing group struggling to achieve the autonomy of the proletariat. But that's not what the TAK (Kurdistan Freedom Hawks) is/are. It's a movement aiming, like the PKK, to establish an independent Kurdish state. As is well known, Kurdish territory, Kurdistan, is divided between Turkey, Syria, Iraq and Iran. Separatism normally implies a region of a recognised state, such as the Basque country and Catalonia in Spain, aspiring to form a separate state. Basque and Catalan separatists aim, in the first instance, to establish separate states within current Spanish territory. They would like to get their hands on bits of France too, but as a secondary aim. In the case of the Kurds, they are seeking separation from all the four states in which their territory lies, though Turkey in the first instance, since that's the biggest bit. Perhaps this is why they've called it "autonome" here instead of "séparatiste". I think you could reflect the distinction, such as it is, by using "independence movement" instead of "separatist movement". At any rate, I believe that's what "mouvement autonome" means here: a movement seeking (territorial) autonomy or independence.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 05:20
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for the insight, I should have been researching more about the "Kurdish question" that the TAK to arrive at this conclusion myself, but I failed to make the connection. Much appreciated.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: TAK was borne out of the PKK, according to a number of sources. Yes, I agree that independence movement is better in this instance. Your explanation is clear enough. The TAK does not slot into the separatist def., but "independence" works well here.
1 hr
  -> Thanks very much, Nikki. They're misusing the term, really, but it happens.

agree  AllegroTrans
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Chris

agree  Ronnie J Rigdon
3 days 20 hrs
  -> Thanks, Ronnie!
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
autonomous/break-away movement


Explanation:
"Autonome" doesn't in this case mean "separatist", but autonomous in relation to the PKK. There does seem to be some difference of opinion over how autonomous it really is and the details of its relation with the PKK.

I don't agree with Nikki that "mouvement autonome" automatically means far left, though in some cases it does. Potentially, it could be used about a far right group or a group that is autonomous for other reasons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Freedom_Hawks#Relati...
"The group presents itself as a break-away faction of the Kurdistan Workers Party (PKK) in open dissent with the PKK's readiness to compromise with the Turkish state. Analysts and experts disagree on whether or not the two groups are in reality still linked."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2017-05-19 13:09:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

On second thoughts, this does depend upon the perspective of the writer of the source text. If it is written from a Marxist perspective, then Nikki is on the right track, though not as regards nationalism, and the best translation would, then be the literal one: "autonomous movement".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autonomism
"The term autonomia/Autonome was first used in 1620, having been composed out of two Greek words, "auto–nomos", referring to someone or something which lives by his/her own rule. Autonomy, in this sense, is not independence. While independence refers to an autarchic kind of life, separated from the community, autonomy refers to life in society but by one's own rule.
...
Unlike other forms of Marxism, autonomist Marxism emphasises the ability of the working class to force changes to the organization of the capitalist system independent of the state, trade unions or political parties. Autonomists are less concerned with party political organization than are other Marxists, focusing instead on self-organized action outside of traditional organizational structures. Autonomist Marxism is thus a "bottom-up" theory: it draws attention to activities that autonomists see as everyday working-class resistance to capitalism, such as absenteeism, slow working, socialization in the workplace, sabotage, and other subversive activities.

Like other Marxists, autonomists see class struggle as being of central importance. However, autonomists have a broader definition of the working class than do other Marxists: as well as wage-earning workers (both white collar and blue collar), autonomists also include in this category the unwaged (students, the unemployed, homemakers, etc.), who are traditionally deprived of any form of union representation."

B D Finch
France
Local time: 05:20
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 123
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