le politique

English translation: the political / the political realm

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:le politique
English translation:the political / the political realm
Entered by: Howard Sugar

14:03 Feb 9, 2013
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics / Philosophy
French term or phrase: le politique
I have a problem here translating "le politique" as opposed to "la politique". For example "Le politique, en effet, n’est pas un élément second, surajouté à la société, mais sa dimension constitutive," or "Le politique n’est donc pas lié d’abord à la question du pouvoi"

The paper also uses "la politique" as in la politique se définissant comme refoulement de la violence et assomption d’un pouvoir
Hence there translated terms must be different.
I have seen "le politique" translated as "the political" however this didn't seem like a good way to translate the expression.
Howard Sugar
Italy
Local time: 15:00
the political / the political realm
Explanation:
Your problem is obviously finding an alternative to "politics", which would be the choice in a less specialised context. I think you could happily use "the political" here, or "the political realm" if you are really not at ease with it, to refer to the overarching political context, translated into concrete form in society by "politics".
I came across this document that I think is useful:
http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/etzioni/A312.pdf
One (short) example of its discussion of the political:

"I proceed next to examine key attributes of the political realm, including its limits.
The political is not the social
Ever since Aristotle advanced the thesis that human beings are by nature political animals, there has been a tendency to fold the social into the political."
Selected response from:

Philippa Smith
Local time: 15:00
Grading comment
I think that in the end I will have to mix "the political" with something like the political sphere occasionally.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +5the political / the political realm
Philippa Smith
4 +2politics
ViBe
4 +1politics
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
5policy
Alison Billington
4political aspect
merlrennes
3the political sphere
Peter LEGUIE
2engagement
Stuart Whittingham (X)
2the body politic
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
1the politician
Marilyn Chbeir
Summary of reference entries provided
Marilyn Chbeir
Here's the article
writeaway
ref. on use of "the political"
CristianaC

Discussion entries: 17





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
political aspect


Explanation:
Oxford French-English Dictionary

merlrennes
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
engagement


Explanation:
This seems to broadly fit with the idea of "participating in society" implied in the given definition, although there may be a more precise term used in political philosophy.

Stuart Whittingham (X)
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36 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
the politician


Explanation:
According to your context, could they be talking about politicians?



Marilyn Chbeir
France
Local time: 15:00
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
politics


Explanation:
The French express this in the singular whereas the British would express this collectively, in the plural.

http://www.cnrtl.fr/definition/politique

II.− Substantif
A.− gén. masc., au sing. ou au plur.
1. Personne qui s'occupe de la conduite des affaires de l'État :
13. Combien de politiques, spéculatifs ou pratiques, ont vu les choses humaines comme Machiavel et comme Hobbes, parce qu'ils voyaient l'homme psychologique à travers le même verre qu'eux! Voilà Rousseau à son tour, le politique du sentiment. Il sent dans son cœur que l'homme est né libre ou doit être libre, et il le voit partout dans les fers. Il veut chercher s'il n'y a pas quelque forme d'administration légitime, c'est-à-dire propre à restituer cette liberté naturelle de l'homme. P. LEROUX, Humanité,1840, p. 131.
a) Vx. Personne qui possède l'art de conduire les affaires de l'État, la science du gouvernement. Tacite et Machiavel, les plus grands politiques qui aient jamais existé (DESMOULINSds Vx Cordelier,1793-94, p. 48).
b) [Souvent avec nuance iron.] Personne qui se prétend compétente en ce qui concerne la conduite des affaires de l'État et tout ce qui s'y rapporte. Ils font la paix! s'écrièrent les politiques du village (MÉRIMÉE, Colomba,1840, p. 111).[Ma femme de chambre] tenait cette belle nouvelle des politiques de l'auberge (MmeDE CHATEAUBR., Mém. et lettres,1847, p. 86):
14. ... Plassans demeura tout surpris, le soir de l'élection, d'avoir eu une volonté si unanime (...). Lespolitiques du cercle du commerce se regardaient d'un air perplexe, en hommes que la victoire confond. ZOLA,Conquête Plassans,1874, p. 1153.
c) Usuel. Personne qui joue un rôle actif dans la conduite des affaires de l'État. Faire entendre les protestations généreuses dont les politiques autrefois faisaient leur gloire (CLEMENCEAU, Vers réparation,1899, p. 114).Les politiques savent que leur fonction est de comprendre toutes les sociétés organisées dans un état (Philos., Relig., 1957, p. 44-11):
15. Toute politique tend à traiter les hommes comme des choses (...). Le politique se représente ces unités comme des éléments arithmétiques puisqu'il se propose d'en disposer. Même l'intention sincère de laisser à ces individus le plus de liberté possible et de leur offrir à chacun quelque part du pouvoir, conduit à leur imposer, en quelque manière, ces avantages dont il arrive parfois qu'ils ne veulent guère, et parfois qu'ils pâtissent indirectement. Arts et litt.,1936, p. 40-2.
[P. oppos. à une autre catégorie] Aussi Goethe dit-il dans sa pièce que les deux personnages qu'il met en contraste, le politique et le poëte, sont les deux moitiés d'un homme (STAËL, Allemagne,t. 3, 1810, p. 59).Comme dans tout dialogue entre le stratège et le politique, le stratège ne peut que faire valoir les limites de ses possibilités et recommander les formules qui lui paraissent les plus favorables, mais c'est le politique qui décide en fonction d'une gamme de données plus étendues (BEAUFRE, Dissuasion et strat.,1964, p. 200).De par la division du travail, les idéologues sont rarement les hommes d'action − les politiques − et d'ailleurs, ils constituent un groupe qui a ses intérêts et ses aspirations dans la classe, ou partiellement hors d'elle (Traité sociol.,1968, p. 367).
− [Avec qualificatif (surtout grand)] Fin, mauvais politique. Bonaparte ne rêva pas un duché du Rhin, comme l'avaient fait quelques politiques médiocres dans la longue lutte de la maison de France contre la maison d'Autriche (HUGO,Rhin,1842, p. 123).Nous n'avons pas ce qu'ont eu les monarchies absolues, de grands politiques comme Richelieu, même comme Dubois, gouvernant l'État ou par la force ou par la ruse, et maîtres d'agir dans toute l'étendue de leurs desseins (REYBAUD, J. Paturot,1842, p. 381):
16. Je ne dis rien d'un monde où les grands politiques parlent paix quand ils songent guerre; ordre quand ils songent massacre; et noblesse, dévouement ou chevalerie, quand il songent Dieu sait quoi. PAULHAN, Fleurs Tarbes,1941, p. 22.
♦ P. anal., au masc. ou au fém. Personne qui mène ses affaires avec les autres de telle ou telle manière. « Ma voix m'a bien servi, pensa M. Leuwen. Cela est juste de ton et expressif. » Mais M. Leuwen n'était pas fait, après tout, pour être un grand politique, un Talleyrand, un ambassadeur auprès de personnages graves (STENDHAL, L. Leuwen,t. 3, 1835, p. 301).Ah! C'est un grand politique! Sa femme l'assure contre Don Camille et Don Camille l'assure contre moi (CLAUDEL, Soulier,1944, 1repart., 2ejournée, 6, p. 1016):
17. Que je puisse agacer maman en me baignant ici... ne me serait jamais venu à l'idée... Et c'est vrai! Tu es comme tante Léo, une grande politique. COCTEAU, Parents,1938, II, 1, p. 228.
2. Personne dont l'action se situe essentiellement dans le domaine des affaires de l'État et de tout ce qui s'y rapporte.
a) HIST., gén. au plur. Membre d'un parti qui, à l'époque de la Ligue, prétendait ne s'occuper que des affaires de l'État et non de la question religieuse. La noblesse logée en divers quartiers de la ville étant égorgée avec lespolitiques et les suspects, on crieroit : vive la messe! tous les bons catholiques prendroient les armes, et le même jour les villes de la Ligue imiteroient Paris (CHATEAUBR., Ét. ou Disc. hist.,t. 4, 1831, p. 309).Au dix-septième siècle la tentative de Saint-Cyran et des Arnauld fut un second acte, une reprise à un étage moindre, mais aussi suivie et prononcée, d'organisation religieuse pour la classe moyenne élevée, la classe parlementaire, celle qui, sous la Ligue, était plus ou moins du parti des politiques (SAINTE-BEUVE, Port-Royal, t. 1, 1840, p. 16).Par Henri IV, l'homme aux deux religions, la France allait retrouver la paix intérieure. Par ce prince politique, l'heure des « politiques », l'heure du tiers parti, approchait (BAINVILLE, Hist. Fr.,t. 1, 1924, p. 186).
b) Personne dont l'action se détermine en fonction de critères touchant à la conduite des affaires de l'État. Enfin, les « politiques », convaincus que notre cause était celle de la France et la servant de leur mieux, ne s'empêchaient pas cependant de penser à leur carrière, de manœuvrer pour se faire valoir suivant les normes de leur profession, de considérer l'avenir sous l'angle de l'élection, des fonctions, du pouvoir, qu'il pourrait un jour leur offrir (DE GAULLE,Mém. guerre,1956, p. 153):
18. Seul, avec un petit groupe d'amis, Jaurès a fait entendre l'appel de générosité, a formulé l'argument de raison. Comme il est chef, on a haussé les épaules, et les « politiques » ont fait preuve d'indulgence en se bornant à empêcher le parti de se compromettre dans cette « sentimentalité ». CLEMENCEAU, Iniquité,1899, p. 261.
c) Partisan de négociations par opposition à une action armée (le plus souvent) ou motivée par des raisons catégorielles. Des chances de pourparlers existaient; pendant un court moment, du côté F.L.N., les « politiques » ont paru avoir le pas sur les militaires, ou du moins ceux-ci laissaient-ils le champ libre à ceux-là (MAURIAC, Nouv. Bloc-Notes,1961, p. 18).
d) P. ell. Prisonnier politique. V. supra I B 1 b β
B.− masc. sing. à valeur de neutre. Tout ce qui a trait à la conduite des affaires de l'État. La civilisation moderne semble bien se caractériser par un régime de séparation du politique et du religieux (Philos., Relig., 1957, p. 46-9).À la naissance des institutions révolutionnaires, le politique commande le technique (BELORGEY, Gouvern. et admin. Fr.,1967, p. 29).Il faut que l'homme fasse peu à peu le dur effort de comprendre que le social, le juridique et le politique sont dépendants de l'économique, c'est-à-dire des conditions matérielles de la vie en société (FOURASTIÉ, Gd espoir du XXes.,1969, p. 325).


http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/politics

politics
Pronunciation: /ˈpɒlɪtɪks/

Translate politics | into French | into German | into Italian | into Spanish
Definition of politics
plural noun
1 [usually treated as singular] the activities associated with the governance of a country or area, especially the debate between parties having power:
the party quickly gained influence in French politics
thereafter he dropped out of active politics
the activities of governments concerning the political relations between states:
in the conduct of global politics, economic status must be backed by military capacity
the academic study of government and the state:
[as modifier]:
a politics lecturer
a particular set of political beliefs or principles:
people do not buy their paper purely for its politics
(often the politics of) the principles relating to or inherent in a sphere or activity, especially when concerned with power and status:
the politics of gender
2activities aimed at improving someone’s status or increasing power within an organization:
yet another discussion of office politics and personalities
Phrases

play politics

act for political or personal gain rather than from principle:
he railed against them for playing politics with the police department
politics in other Oxford dictionaries

Definition of politics in the dictionary US English





Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 15:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 31

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ViBe: Great minds think alike!
5 mins

agree  Bertrand Leduc
1 hr

neutral  writeaway: if it was LA politique....../since you seem to enjoy looooong references, have a look here: http://www.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2003-1-page-3...
1 hr
  -> You're right; I should have done some editing! Check out B of the CNRTL source. Your reference can be read to confirm my suggestion and to corroborate my CNRTL reference. It is an older and perhaps less modern usage; "LA politique" is more commonly used.

disagree  Victoria Britten: According to the definitions you quote, LE politique is an actual person, certainly not "politics"
15 hrs
  -> The definition which I should have isolated is B in the CNRTL source. I failed to edit my French source correctly.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
the political sphere


Explanation:
My feeling is that "le politique" stands for those people indulging in politics or else, which is probably more likely, all the matters which are dealt with by politicians' action.

Peter LEGUIE
Local time: 15:00
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Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
the political / the political realm


Explanation:
Your problem is obviously finding an alternative to "politics", which would be the choice in a less specialised context. I think you could happily use "the political" here, or "the political realm" if you are really not at ease with it, to refer to the overarching political context, translated into concrete form in society by "politics".
I came across this document that I think is useful:
http://www.gwu.edu/~ccps/etzioni/A312.pdf
One (short) example of its discussion of the political:

"I proceed next to examine key attributes of the political realm, including its limits.
The political is not the social
Ever since Aristotle advanced the thesis that human beings are by nature political animals, there has been a tendency to fold the social into the political."

Philippa Smith
Local time: 15:00
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
I think that in the end I will have to mix "the political" with something like the political sphere occasionally.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: http://www.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2003-1-page-3... /it's heavy duty stuff.....
39 mins
  -> Ta Writeaway! Interesting to see the article. /It is, and hard to translate unless you happen to be political philosopher as well as translator...:-)

agree  katsy
3 hrs
  -> Thanks Katsy!

agree  Branka Ramadanovic
7 hrs
  -> Thanks Branka!

agree  Victoria Britten
14 hrs
  -> Thanks Victoira!

agree  CristianaC
1 day 4 hrs
  -> Thanks Cristianac!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
politics


Explanation:
as in "la vie politique" ou "le système politique."



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2013-02-09 16:43:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

polity

Example sentence(s):
  • Politics and Violence...

    Reference: http://the-classic-liberal.com/politics-violence/
ViBe
Local time: 15:00
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Snap! And posted at the same time!!!
1 min
  -> :) Merci

agree  Bertrand Leduc
1 hr
  -> Thx

neutral  writeaway: if it was LA politique...... /well, isn't that the problem?? Here it's LE politique which means politics isn't correct (that's LA politique).
1 hr
  -> it would be "policy," among other things... / I understand "politics" as political life of a nation in general, while "policy," among other things, is a specific line/deal/course of action its political elite pursues...
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
the body politic


Explanation:
In my previous answer, I was perfectly aware that this was not "LA politique" which can be translated in general political contexts by "politics" or "policy", depending on the particular meaning. I am perfectly aware that neither of those normal meanings apply here. My clumsy editing of the French source did nothing to assist clarity. I wished to refer to the final definition under B in that source.

"Politics" as in "things political relating to the body politic" is what was meant. (I hope I am not digging myself into a hole here)! I like "political realm" but believe it is still a little removed from the more erudite "LE politique".

If "le politique" is synonymous with "corps-état" here, then might "body politic" not be a suitable solution in English ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_politic#cite_note-4

http://definitions.uslegal.com/b/body-politic/

"A body politic is a collective body of a nation or State regarded as politically organized or as exercising political functions. A body politic hence must possess some attribute of sovereignty and exercise some sovereign power of the State, either through constitutional or legislative grant, which it exercises for the common benefit of all within its geographical boundaries."


http://www.c-s-p.org/Flyers/9781847182722-sample.pdf

Check out pages 19-20.



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2013-02-10 09:24:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I'd like to see more of the original. A couple of sentences before and a couple following one or two points where the term appears.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 15:00
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19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
policy


Explanation:
I think this is a near faux ami.

It is the difference between a government policy and a political stance.

Alison Billington
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:00
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 3

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: not here. see the entire doc in the ref below. can you quote a passage from it that backs your answer???
1 hr
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Reference comments


32 mins peer agreement (net): +1
Reference

Reference information:
Your question intrigued me and I started searching for an answer. Unfortunately, I was not able to find the term you need, but I came across this interesting article.


    Reference: http://gauchet.blogspot.fr/2007/11/le-politique-versus-la-po...
Marilyn Chbeir
France
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Philippa Smith: Very relevant and useful article!
2 hrs
  -> thank you Philippa!
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2 hrs peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: Here's the article

Reference information:
http://www.cairn.info/revue-raisons-politiques-2003-1-page-3...

writeaway
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 64

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Philippa Smith: Good to see the full context.
31 mins
  -> imo really vital in this case. it's far too involved a text for terms to be taken out of context.
agree  AllegroTrans: OK excellent, why not suggest a translation now or agree with one already posted?
55 mins
  -> maybe because I'm too busy with my own work and this isn't one of those easy-peasy Kudoz questions so a lot of time and thought is needed. And I don't see your answer anywhere........
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1 day 6 hrs
Reference: ref. on use of "the political"

Reference information:
http://journals.uvic.ca/index.php/peninsula/article/view/687...

in the bibliography also several works on "the political"

CristianaC
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
Note to reference poster
Asker: I actually read a few articles using the political but they only referred to works by French writers and the word wouldn't work with the title. But thank you very much for the article.

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