îlot de sénescence

06:54 Jun 22, 2014
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other

French to English translations [PRO]
Forestry / Wood / Timber
French term or phrase: îlot de sénescence
This is from a text on forest management in France
Julius Ngwa
Canada
Local time: 07:26


Summary of answers provided
4 +1isolated climax forest communities
Francis Marche
3 +1pocket of senescence
Elizabeth Tamblin
3 +1pocket of ancient woodland
ormiston
3area of old-growth forest
Mpoma
4 -1areas of deadwood habitats
Dominic D
3pocket of unmanaged woodland
Terry Richards
3dead wood islands
Evgeny Artemov (X)
Summary of reference entries provided
Îlot de sénescence
Daryo
For those who doubt the use of the term
B D Finch

Discussion entries: 12





  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
dead wood islands


Explanation:
Probably a partial calque.


    Reference: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2Fs10342-010-0366-3
    Reference: http://core.kmi.open.ac.uk/display/14317430
Evgeny Artemov (X)
South Africa
Local time: 14:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in RussianRussian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Dominic D: the 2 ghits for that come from translations of French texts I'm not sure that's enough proof...should we presume that other translators are as thorough as us...humm not sure about that one!
16 hrs
  -> The ghits prove only prior translation & acceptance, nothing more. I presume the guys who did the translations for the European Journal of Forest Research and Springer, checked out thorougher. :-)

neutral  B D Finch: Senéscence FR or senescence EN mean at the final stage of their natural life: i.e. not dead yet.
6 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
pocket of unmanaged woodland


Explanation:
Woodland that is left in its natural condition where trees are allowed to die. A variety of trees (some of them dead) provides a habitat that favours biodiversity.


Terry Richards
France
Local time: 13:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daryo: that's pretty close
28 mins

agree  Mpoma: yes, probably. There's a groovy term for this, but I can't remember what it is: "wild forest" is the gist, but I think it's groovier than that. Later: I think "unmanaged forest" probably *is* the preferred term...
1 hr

disagree  Dominic D: not sure that"s it because leaving deadwood is considered an important part of woodland management so to say it's unmanaged is incorrect
6 hrs

disagree  B D Finch: No, that would be ancient or unmanaged woodland.
3 days 21 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
pocket of ancient woodland


Explanation:
This comes from a UK website

Restoring plantations on ancient woodland sites - The ...
www.woodlandtrust.org.uk/.../FRI-research.pdf
Traduire cette page
de SN Pryor - ‎Cité 12 fois - ‎Autres articles
4 Factors affecting survival of ancient woodland components. 7. 4.1 The process and ...... pockets of ancient semi-natural woodland within the plantation matrix ..

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 hrs (2014-06-22 21:13:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

PDF]
Commissioned Report 331 - Scottish Natural Heritage
www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/...reports/331.pdf
Traduire cette page
de SN Heritage - ‎Autres articles
Data on the age structure and herbivore impacts of woodland was collected, to allow an ..... the highest proportion of over mature and senescent woodland. 0. 1.

ormiston
Local time: 13:26
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mpoma: credible... but your link doesn't throw any definitive light on the *meaning* of the FR term... which is what we need!
3 hrs
  -> you are right. Senescence is used in forestry I see, to describe aging forest.

neutral  Daryo: I would rather use the "pocket of natural woodland" part of your reference.
1 day 1 hr

neutral  B D Finch: "Ancient woodland" is woodland that has developed naturally without intervention and in England and Wales means that it dates to before 1600. Senescent woodland is trees that are reaching the end of their natural lifespan.
3 days 3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
areas of deadwood habitats


Explanation:
interesting document about this subject from the forestry commission in the UK

from what i can gather what is found in the deadwood habitat is called CWD or coarse woody debris (the second web reference)

Example sentence(s):
  • Creating, maintaining and managing deadwood habitats is seen as a key component of improving the condition of native woodland (as part of the UK Biodiversity Action Plan – see Appendix 1)

    Reference: http://www.forestry.gov.uk/pdf/FCPG020.pdf/$FILE/FCPG020.pdf
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coarse_woody_debris
Dominic D
France
Local time: 13:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Elizabeth Tamblin: Senescence isn't the same as deadwood, though.
19 hrs
  -> in English I agree but îlots de sénescence are deadwood habitats but I won't take it personally my reference backs it up. ..you wouldn't be disagreeing with my answer because I disagree with yours by any chance ;-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
pocket of senescence


Explanation:
http://www.aifm.org/sites/default/files/Progress book 2_En.p...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day14 mins (2014-06-23 07:09:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/463317/plant-devel...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day15 mins (2014-06-23 07:10:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://learningstore.uwex.edu/assets/pdfs/A2510.pdf


Example sentence(s):
  • "Another activity will concern the setting up of pockets of senescence, in order to allow a natural evolution of the forest."
Elizabeth Tamblin
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:26
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Verginia Ophof
4 hrs
  -> Thank you

neutral  ormiston: your link is a rather poorly translated article from Italy
6 hrs
  -> Thank you for that. Several other people have suggested 'pockets,' however, and 'senescence' is the term used in forestry. What's your objection?

disagree  Daryo: "pocket of senescence" ONE single ghit in a translation from Italian? I doubt that the same thing is not done in UK also, so the lack of any UK refs shows this translation is to be taken with a loooong barge-pole!// yes, used for leaves
7 hrs
  -> Thank you for jumping in with your usual unidiomatic style, Daryo. Your research will have shown that senescence is a word commonly used in forestry, so what exactly is your objection?

neutral  Mpoma: you have *asserted* that "senescence" is a commonly used term in EN in forestry. A quick google shows that it is used in the way I'd expect: dead tree trunks. Please show by *credible references* that a "pocket of senescence" is not just nonsense in EN
10 hrs
  -> A link to use of word senescence http://www.savatree.com/tracing-tree-of-life.html. Pocket was my own idea originally, and seems to have been used by several others here.

disagree  Dominic D: senescence seems only to be used in forestry for leaf decay. the English in the article is very poor eg "We prefer to expose you, step by step, what we are doing" euh yes we know what it check Wikipedia
16 hrs
  -> Do we know from the context that it isn't about leaf decay? Senescence is a stage in a tree's life, and not just the leafage. What's that last comment, Dominic? Please translate!

agree  rkillings: Sure. Circumscribed stand of mainly senescent trees nearing the end of their lifetimes. Unstable situation even for a "climax forest" species mix.
3 days 7 hrs
  -> Thanks for posting

agree  B D Finch: See the reference I posted. "Senescent" woodland is NOT "deadwood" and the word "pocket" for "îlot" seems perfectly good and descriptive, even if you just invented it and it got no Google hits.
3 days 10 hrs
  -> Thanks, and in retrospect, I would change my suggestion to "pocket of senescent woodland".
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day 41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
area of old-growth forest


Explanation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old-growth_forest
yes, it's Wikipedia, but there are lots of refs at the bottom of the page

Mpoma
United Kingdom
Local time: 12:26
Native speaker of: English
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day 8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
isolated climax forest communities


Explanation:
or "isolated climax forest stands"

"pocket of climax/mature forests" is an alternative.

No "old-growth" (which is "vieille futaie" in French) and no "senescence" which is rarely used if at all in English for plant communities.






--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day8 hrs (2014-06-23 15:35:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If the focus is on the "semi-decayed" stage of that tree community, you may try "post-climax forest communities", readily associated with some wildlife habitats (owls, etc.) where dead trees are dominant.

Francis Marche
France
Local time: 13:26
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  rkillings: "climax forest" not an uncontested phenomenon or term with a universally agreed definition. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climax_community for the theoretical baggage. Do we know that the writer of this text believes in the climax theory?
11 hrs
  -> It's a political issue for some -- a climax forest is NOT a forester's goal and is regarded by forest industries as unproductive utopia; while for some environmentalists or conservationists it's a most desirable outcome. Not a language issue.

agree  GILOU
22 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


8 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Îlot de sénescence

Reference information:
En forêt, un « îlot de sénescence » est une zone volontairement abandonnée à une évolution spontanée de la nature jusqu'à l'effondrement complet des arbres (chablis) et reprise du cycle sylvigénétique. Il ne doit pas être confondu avec l'« îlot de vieillissement » qui n'est conservé que provisoirement (et géré avec un objectif sylvicole).
C'est un des moyens de soutien de la biodiversité forestière en favorisant des espèces et habitats liés au bois mort et aux arbres sénescents (porteurs de cavité et abritant davantage d'épiphytes).
Ils offrent des habitats qui améliorent la « naturalité » des forêts : on peut y trouver des arbres grands et vieux ainsi que du bois mort, comme on en trouverait dans une forêt naturelle, pour permettre la survie des espèces dépendantes de ces milieux. Ces sites ne sont pas eux-mêmes gérés, mais il ne s'agit pas non plus d'un « abandon » ; cette « non-gestion » est un élément à part entière du plan de gestion (gestion durable de la forêt).
Pour des raisons de sécurité des promeneurs éventuels, ces îlots sont généralement mis en place à distance suffisante des voies de circulation publiques.

Éléments de définition
Les îlots de sénescence ont en France été définis en 2009 par l'ONF comme suit :
« Petit peuplement laissé en évolution libre sans intervention culturale et conservé jusqu'à son terme physique, c'est-à-dire jusqu'à l'effondrement des arbres. Les îlots de sénescence sont composés d'arbres de faible valeur économique et qui présentent une valeur biologique particulière (gros bois à cavité, vieux bois sénescents…). Les îlots de sénescence sont donc préférentiellement recrutés dans des peuplements de qualité technologique moyenne à médiocre, des peuplements peu accessibles, des séries boisées d'intérêt écologique… Pour des raisons de sécurité et de responsabilité, ils sont choisis hors des lieux fréquentés par le public. »
...
[http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Îlot_de_sénescence]

Daryo
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
Note to reference poster
Asker: Thank you very much. My own research actually took me to the same page, where I noticed the term is fairly new.


Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  philgoddard: I can't find an English equivalent though. Perhaps "areas of ageing and deliberately neglected trees".
1 hr
  -> I know of one small forest like that just few miles from Central London - on a section of railway disused for at least 40-50 years, so it's neither an unknown nor a brand new concept in England - you'd expect a decent number of ghits for the right term.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 days 10 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: For those who doubt the use of the term

Reference information:
"This base line survey was commissioned by Scottish Natural Heritage (SNH) in support of joint agency working. The area surveyed was restricted to native woodlands within Stack Woods Site of Special Scientific Interest. Data on the age structure and herbivore impacts of woodland was collected, to allow an assessment of the risk posed by current grazing levels to the continuity of the woodland. A 1% systematic sample of the woodland area was taken using fifteen 0.02 hectare plots, and plot centres were permanently marked. Plot samples were used to categorise the woodland composition by life class as juvenile nonreproductive, young reproductive, mature reproductive, over-mature, senescent or phoenix. The success of tree seedling regeneration and the proportion of deadwood present was also assessed within each plot."


    Reference: http://www.snh.org.uk/pdfs/publications/commissioned_reports...
B D Finch
France
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  ormiston: I did find this and your comment about my suggestion is correct. But I have contacted a working forestry graduate (in Scotland) who says he NEVER hears the term and only hears over-mature / moribund
2 days 20 hrs
  -> In the SNH list, "senescent" is clearly a stage beyond "over-mature", so equivalent to your graduate's "moribund". It is likely that the vocabulary is not totally standardised and that "moribund" and "senescent" (same meaning) are used interchangeably.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:

Your current localization setting

English

Select a language

Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search