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école républicaine

English translation: state school system

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:école républicaine
English translation:state school system
Entered by: Thomas Miles

09:29 Apr 3, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy
French term or phrase: école républicaine
In this guide aimed at teachers delivering lessons on the history of Africa, one section looks at the current challenges that the continent is facing.

Students are prompted to complete a number of activities around education challenges, including:

"Identifier les défis de l’éducation dans votre pays ou région
Organiser des débats sur les problèmes auxquels l’Ecole dans votre pays fait face aujourd’hui
Dire ce que doit faire l’Etat pour sauvegarder l’Ecole républicaine"

As this is resolutely not aimed at French schools (and not all African states are republics), how should I interpet the notion of 'école républicaine'? Simply 'state schools' or something a little deeper, such as 'schools operating in accordance with republican principles'?

xxx
Thomas Miles
France
Local time: 09:56
public/state school system
Explanation:
(...) in order to safeguard the public/state school system.

-> This way, you're talking about a "system" (which only applies to relevant African states).
Selected response from:

Paolo Dagonnier
Belgium
Local time: 09:56
Grading comment
This was the suggestion I integrated into the translation, and worked best based on the wider context.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2publicly funded secular schools
Eliza Hall
4 +1École républicaine (italics)
Ph_B (X)
4public/state school system
Paolo Dagonnier
4 -1The French Republican School
Francois Boye
Summary of reference entries provided
French-style secularism
Yvonne Gallagher

Discussion entries: 17





  

Answers


27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
public/state school system


Explanation:
(...) in order to safeguard the public/state school system.

-> This way, you're talking about a "system" (which only applies to relevant African states).

Paolo Dagonnier
Belgium
Local time: 09:56
Works in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
This was the suggestion I integrated into the translation, and worked best based on the wider context.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Excellent suggestion, thanks.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Pierre POUSSIN: A"public school" in English is NOT a state school, but, in fact, a éprivate school"!
12 mins

agree  Victoria Britten: I think it's a good idea to point up the fact that it is about a whole system. "Public" for a US audience; "state" for GB (where "public" schools are anything but!!)
30 mins
  -> Thank you, Victoria! Not knowing what the target audience was (UK/US), I figured I would include both.

agree  Tereza Rae
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Tereza.

disagree  Eliza Hall: Agree with the concept, but these terms are not quite right. "Public schools" means private schools in the UK (totally opposite meaning than in the US), and "state schools" is off because, as others noted, it could be religious in Africa.
3 hrs

disagree  Daryo: you could have "state schools" that DO NOT and "non-state/private ..." schools that DO qualify to be called "école républicaine" IOW you are presuming a non-existent correlation.
6 hrs

disagree  Yvonne Gallagher: Public= private/expensive in UK and many state-run schools include religious instruction/prayers etc.
6 hrs

agree  katsy: Perhaps "public" could be avoided because the the UK interpretation, but in context I am not sure it is a problem. This is the idea
8 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
The French Republican School


Explanation:
It is not an accident that the French write 'l’Ecole républicaine' instead of 'l'école républicaine'. See below for more explanations.

https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1057/9781137316080_4

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 03:56
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 47

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Daryo: your link is very relevant - spot on! But I don't think that simply reusing the title "The French Republican School" is the best way of giving a name for the concept of "l'école républicaine!".
3 hrs

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: doesn't work in English, especially capitalised. It's NOT a proper noun! You need to provide an explanation ( not just a link) as most people wouldn't have a clue. But it's part of meaning to be included so am changing my disagree to neutral
3 hrs

disagree  Eliza Hall: I'm with Yvonne. "Republican" is a faux ami for "Républicain(e)." It has a completely different meaning in the US, and another completely different meaning in the UK.
9 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
publicly funded secular schools


Explanation:
If this were strictly for a US audience you could say "public schools," because in the US that means government-funded, totally secular schools with no religious education, which is what the French original means.

But in the UK "public schools" means something completely different -- they're privately funded, with exorbitant tuition fees, and they include religious education. Even "state schools" in the UK can include religious education, so that translation doesn't work either.

So, because there is no international English term that is equivalent to "l'école républicaine," you need an explanatory translation: publicly funded (or government funded if you prefer), secular.

Eliza Hall
United States
Local time: 03:56
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 6

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ph_B (X): that this translation summarises what I explained in the discussion box, and with Yvonne below.
4 mins
  -> Thank you.

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: ...But not simply that. You need to include something on the republican principle of equality of opportunity as the ethos//Read my refs//"republican" does not equate to the IRA!! Esp. when speaking of French republican principles
1 hr
  -> Why? That's not inherent in the word "Républicain," at least not more than it's inherent in the concept of publicly funded nonreligious schools (which only exist because people think kids should have equal opportunity regardless of wealth or religion).

disagree  Francois Boye: The concept of 'Republican School' is a standard coined in the 1880s by the Third Republic to define the framework to educate the masses in France.
2 hrs
  -> And we don't know what it means because it's a faux ami/bad translation. Republican means something completely different in the US, and something else again in the UK (Irish Republican Army). So you need an explanatory translation.

agree  Yolanda Broad
6 hrs

agree  Daryo: sounds like one good solution - at least for those who really understand the concept.
13 days
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3 days 5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
École républicaine (italics)


Explanation:

As already mentioned in the discussion box,

École républicaine refers to a reform of French education in the 1880s, which Bibliothèque nationale de France aptly describes as the introduction of “école laïque, gratuite, obligatoire et suivant un programme commun à toutes les régions et toutes les classes sociales françaises” (https://www.retronews.fr/cycle/lecole-republicaine-une-insti...

I don't think that “state school(s) system” or “republican school" faithfully reflects all that École républicaine stands for, nor is it accurate; the former doesn’t necessarily exclude public acts of worship, which École républicaine would definitely not allow, and the latter could be too vague or misleading or not understood at all in the English-speaking world if you don't know enough French history.

Also, trying to get all that defines École républicaine into one bit sounds like an impossible task if you want your text to flow easily. Would “free, state-run, secular, universal, non-discriminatory/all-inclusive, etc. school system” work in English without being too cumbersome and above all, would it fit nicely into Thomas’s text?

I suggest keeping the French and adding a short translator’s note (perhaps a translation of the BnF line I quoted above?). After all, we use "Commonwealth" in French and English uses "Entente Cordiale" without any problem as far as I know. Keeping the French would alert the interested reader and the note would steer him or her in the right direction.

(Apologies for discussing other answers here; I realize there’s a rule against that but it can’t be wrong if it’s done in a decent and polite way, which I believe is the case.)


Ph_B (X)
France
Local time: 09:56
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Daryo
10 days
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Reference comments


8 hrs peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: French-style secularism

Reference information:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secularism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_education_in_France
interesting article here:

https://foreignpolicy.com/2016/04/07/the-battle-for-the-fren...

In 1905, when France’s Third Republic enacted the separation of church and state, it offered a simple definition of the term. Laïcité “assures the liberty of conscience” of all French citizens, the new law read. This law was given further elaboration in the constitution of the Fifth (and current) Republic: Laïcité “assures the equality of all citizens before the law, without distinction to their origin, race, or religion. It respects all religious beliefs.” There was essentially no substantive difference between the style of secularism envisioned by the founders of laïcité and the framers of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. As in the United States, French secularism nitially sought to ensure religious pluralism in the public and private spheres — nothing more, nothing less.

Unlike American secularism, laïcité is the capstone to a long history of conflict, and deep distrust, between French republican and Catholic institutions. Dating back to the French Revolution in 1789, the smoldering embers of this battle flared again as late as the 1980s, when Catholics and Socialists clashed over state subsidies for private schools, most of which were (and remain) Catholic. But while the republic has sought to sever its official ties with the church, it has not contested its right to teach the republic’s children or to minister to the faithful....
The once-straightforward guarantees of “freedom of conscience” and “free exercise of religious faiths” — rooted in and restricted to the constitutions of the Third, Fourth, and Fifth Republics — were transformed under the forces of political passion and mounting existential anguish into the defining French values, and any form of retreat from a fundamentalist interpretation was a failure to defend the republic..."

https://www.historytoday.com/what-french-secularism

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/magazine/secularisminfran...

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Note added at 8 hrs (2019-04-03 17:37:23 GMT)
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http://eduscol.education.fr/cid76044/the-secularism-charter-...

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Note added at 8 hrs (2019-04-03 17:38:53 GMT)
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"...The secular republic does not give preferential treatment to its citizens pertaining to their convictions or beliefs, especially through public services or in other institutions. Secularism is not one opinion among many, but the freedom to have an opinion. It is not a conviction but the principle that authorises all convictions, subject to respect for public order.

Secular Schooling
Secular schooling, an even older principle, dates back to the 1882 educational laws of Jules Ferry (secular education) and the Goblet law of 1886 (secular teaching staff), and is based on three principles: freedom of conscience for pupils, separation between public schools and religious groups and equality for all in relation to school and knowledge, regardless of belief or conviction..."

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 100

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Ph_B (X)
5 mins
  -> Thanks:-) I agree with your Dbox notes.
agree  writeaway
2 days 4 hrs
  -> Thanks:-)
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