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barrait le Nil

English translation: controlled the Nile

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:barrait le Nil
English translation:controlled the Nile
Entered by: Hazel Le Goff

19:53 Apr 30, 2013
French to English translations [PRO]
Architecture / Military fortifications in Cairo
French term or phrase: barrait le Nil
La tour de la chaine, ou Burg as-Silisila [spelling Silsila], barrait le Nil, elle se trouvait au nord du port de Damiette, en dehors de l’agglomération médiévale.
Hazel Le Goff
Local time: 03:32
controlled the Nile
Explanation:
In that case, thenmaybe something like 'controlled' would work better for you — it is often used in this way, such-and-such a country / person held such-and-such a strategic position in order to control the pass, the river crossing, etc.

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Note added at 13 hrs (2013-05-01 09:07:56 GMT)
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Especially as David has pointed out about the use of chains.

My Dad used this technique in the '60s — we lived on a boat moored alongside in a narrow stretch of water where the speed was restricted to 5 knots, but swanky motor cruiser owners used to race past. So Dad got 2 odd lengths of old chain, nailed one to the piles on the opposite side and tied one to the side of our boat; then he shouted to the speeders "If you go past at that speed again, I'll pull on this chain and rip your props off!" It sure slowed them down, and they never once suspected the two ends of chain were not connected ;-)

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Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-05-02 07:48:51 GMT)
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I think that's the whole point, Asker — the purpose of this chain is exactly that: to control who is allowed to pass or not; this could be for making them pay a toll, for example, or preventing competitors' ships from passing; or of course, it is also likely to be used in time of war to stop invaders entering the river, for example.

'barrer' just means 'to bar the way' — in the case of a river, it's easier to do that using a thumping great chain.

I think one could argue the opposite: your idea of 'blocking access to the Nile' tends to suggest it might have been permanently blocked off, whereas the whole point of this chain exercise was that it was occasional, only a termporary barrier, which was relatively quick to open or close.
Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 04:32
Grading comment
OK, very good justification for this response and I appreciate the depth of your answer. Many thanks.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3barred the Nile
JaneD
4 +2controlled access to the Nile...
Christopher Crockett
4 +1blocked the Nile
Sheri P
3 +2controlled the Nile
Tony M


Discussion entries: 2





  

Answers


12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
barred the Nile


Explanation:
I'm not quite sure what the problem is here - the fort prevented movement up the Nile by means of the guns stationed there.

JaneD
Sweden
Local time: 04:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  BrigitteHilgner: If not guns then maybe catapults ...
10 hrs
  -> Thanks Brigitte
agree  David Sirett: but note "tour de la chaine": chains were the usual method for barring a river to control access
11 hrs
  -> Thanks David
agree  Christopher Crockett: I definitely agree with David (Great Minds Running in the Same Ruts) --in pre-gunpowder days (and even well into the 19th c.) it was customary to block a harbor (or river) with a chain. One end of the chain (at least) was protected by this tower.
17 hrs
  -> Thanks Christopher
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
blocked the Nile


Explanation:
Another possibility

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Note added at 16 hrs (2013-05-01 12:47:46 GMT)
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The following explanation suggests that chain towers were part of *physically* blocking navigation. Note that both '(un)block' and 'bar' are used in the description:

Oxford Dictionary of Archaeology:
chain tower

A small stone or timber structure built beside a river or harbour mouth to house the end of a defensive chain, or the mechanism to raise and lower a defensive chain. Such chains were laid bank to bank across a river or inlet so that in normal circumstances they rested on the riverbed or sea bed. At times of trouble they could be lifted to run more or less along the waterline, thus barring access to hostile ships. The towers were usually strongly built so that they could be defended against attacks from landing parties set ashore to unblock the navigation. Most chain towers date to the 15th and 16th centuries ad.

http://www.answers.com/topic/chain-tower

Sheri P
United States
Local time: 22:32
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Wendy Streitparth: This sounds more appropriate for a river
4 hrs
  -> Thank you, Wendy
neutral  Christopher Crockett: Thanks for the ODA reference, Sheri --nice catch. It's clear that this is what we are dealing with. But I believe that "blocked" isn't quite the right word for the job --at least not without some sort of qualification.
10 hrs
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13 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
controlled the Nile


Explanation:
In that case, thenmaybe something like 'controlled' would work better for you — it is often used in this way, such-and-such a country / person held such-and-such a strategic position in order to control the pass, the river crossing, etc.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 13 hrs (2013-05-01 09:07:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Especially as David has pointed out about the use of chains.

My Dad used this technique in the '60s — we lived on a boat moored alongside in a narrow stretch of water where the speed was restricted to 5 knots, but swanky motor cruiser owners used to race past. So Dad got 2 odd lengths of old chain, nailed one to the piles on the opposite side and tied one to the side of our boat; then he shouted to the speeders "If you go past at that speed again, I'll pull on this chain and rip your props off!" It sure slowed them down, and they never once suspected the two ends of chain were not connected ;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day11 hrs (2013-05-02 07:48:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think that's the whole point, Asker — the purpose of this chain is exactly that: to control who is allowed to pass or not; this could be for making them pay a toll, for example, or preventing competitors' ships from passing; or of course, it is also likely to be used in time of war to stop invaders entering the river, for example.

'barrer' just means 'to bar the way' — in the case of a river, it's easier to do that using a thumping great chain.

I think one could argue the opposite: your idea of 'blocking access to the Nile' tends to suggest it might have been permanently blocked off, whereas the whole point of this chain exercise was that it was occasional, only a termporary barrier, which was relatively quick to open or close.

Tony M
France
Local time: 04:32
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 143
Grading comment
OK, very good justification for this response and I appreciate the depth of your answer. Many thanks.
Notes to answerer
Asker: I agree with Jane that your story deserves some points. However, in my humble opinion, 'controlling the Nile' could have connotations of occasionally affording access to it, a little too far from the source text of 'barrer'. I may stick with my original 'blocking access to' the Nile, because once the Chain Tower is captured, foreign ships gain access to the Nile.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: I think that you are closer to the right phrasing here, Tony.
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Christopher!
agree  JaneD: Actually I think you should get the points for the story that goes with your suggestion!
5 hrs
  -> Thanks, Jane!
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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
controlled access to the Nile...


Explanation:
Tony has got the right, slightly ambiguous, verb; but why not make the whole thing clearer by a bit of amplification?

The Burg as-Silsila, or "chain tower" (so named because it was built to protect the mechanism for raising an lowering a chain across the river) was north of the port of Damiette, outside the medieval city, and controlled access to the Nile.

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Note added at 18 hrs (2013-05-01 14:35:09 GMT)
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Answer to Tony:

Maybe it's just a function of Brit vs. Colonial English, Tony, but "controlled the Nile," while certainly correct, sounds a bit over-the-top to my ear.

My colonial instinct toward redundancy leads me to say what it is that is being "controlled." And here (I assume) it is ship access to and from the river --in both directions. You're right, and perhaps it should be "controlled access to and from the Nile."

But, I've never been to the Burg as-Silsila, myself.

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Note added at 18 hrs (2013-05-01 14:45:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thinking about it a bit further (never a bad practice), I'd say, Yes --the major purpose of the chain was to control access to the Nile, from the sea.

A seagoing warship could otherwise use the superhighway (autoroute/trunk-road) to "access" the whole of Egypt (which is to say a ribbon of fertile land only a few miles across, a thousand miles deep) for purpose of rape, pillage or conquest.

I seem to remember that the port city of Damietta (or Aboukir) played an important role in Napoleon's Egyptian campaign.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_campaign_in_Egypt_and_S...

It was, evidently, "The Gateway to Egypt."

Thanks for forcing me to clarify things, Tony.

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Note added at 1 day17 hrs (2013-05-02 13:29:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thinking about it a bit further (which is still never a bad practice), I should add that by "seagoing warship" I don't mean one of the massive Ships of the Line which both the French and the British brought to the battle of Aboukir

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Nile

Those leviathans were not fit for a river --even one as large as the Nile (beyond the delta)-- because both their draft and the narrowness of the river (an important consideration for a sailing ship which had to tack frequently) would have rendered them worse than useless.

However, even a small, lightly armed Slope of War could have wreaked havoc --at least until confronted by a land battery; and a modest flotilla of them (supported by sufficient troops) could have resulted in Conquest.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 22:32
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 79

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M
23 mins
  -> Thanks, Tony.
agree  Yolanda Broad
2 days 2 hrs
  -> Thanks, Yolanda. Apparently "nuance" is not what was wanted here.
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