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Explanation: Not really — in both your examples, 'percentage points' is fine, so there is no 'should' about it; it would certainly not be wrong to change them — but it is fine as it stands.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 12 minutes (2015-06-04 16:21:28 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
We tend to use 'percent' when referring to some absolute value: "the election turnout was 57%" But we tend to use 'percentage points' when referring to some relative value: "that was 4 percentage points down on last year" In the first instance, it would sound distinctly odd to use 'percentage points' (i'd say arguably downright wrong), whereas in the latter, either sounds fine.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 31 minutes (2015-06-04 16:39:59 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I don't see why you say this doesn't apply to your context! What's so special or different about your context? I thought I had made it abundantly clear: when talking about an absolute value of percent, it is more natural (and I believe more correct) to use 'percent' — or indeed often the symbol %. However, where relative percentage points are being talked about (your case exactly!), then I feel percentage points is not only acceptable, but to some extent even preferable.
Where a context contains BOTH absolute AND relative values, I think it is less confusing to simply stick with 'percent' everywhere — unless there is the potential ambiguity as highlighted by Donal.
'Percentage points' are ONLY really used in the rarer case of relative percentages where no absolutes are being cited. And then only usually when describing some trend etc.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 36 minutes (2015-06-04 16:45:02 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
No of course it's not an 'absolute' value — the whole point of a 'margin of error' is that it is a 'relative' value, like a tolerance: "230V ±10%"
If it were an absolute value, it would imply that the MoE was say "10% of the whole sample set"
What is your specific question again? If percentage point and % mean one and the same thing in this context, then usage obviously comes down to preference. And no, I do not understand statistics. I was just making an effort for this question. This is a translators' site, remember?
But you're explaining this like we're in Algebra I. I have a B.S. in Mathematics and I understand statistics. I certainly hope you do too. My question is very specific and should not be dumbed down merely to the difference between per cent and percentage points, which I think we all understand.
The number of people the outcome applies to always constitutes 100%. X percentage points out of 100 or x% out of the whole lot of people really is the same thing. And it would seem you need to be more specific when using "per cent". Cilian in his example is computing x% of the outcome.
Thank you for the reference link. This information, while certainly true, does not sway help my opinion one way or the other. It does not answer my question (which hasn't changed):
Is "The survey had a margin of error of 3 percentage points" the perfect wording or would it be more correct to say "The survey had a margin of error of 3 per cent."?
Good explanation, which seems to elucidate why, at least when I studied sociology research methods and statistics, sociologists and statisticians talked about a three percent margin of error, not a three percentage points margin of error. (Of course, that was a long time ago and they may have become less linguistically rigorous since then.)
between percentage points and percent. Assuming some outcome is 20%, a fall of 5 percentage points would bring it to 15. A fall of 5 percent would bring it to 19. Ratios versus differences.
Superfluous: "unnecessary, especially through being more than enough"
If publishers use "percentage points" to 'spell things out' for their readers instead of the more accurate and shorter "per cent", that's superfluous, isn't it? Of course, I defer to your expertise on this.
Getting back to the point... As the Wikipedia article explains and as I tried to argue, "margin of error" is a characteristic of an entire survey and should not be blindly applied to any particular percentage result, unless it's very close to 50%. That is why "percentage points" may be misleading: it gives the impression that the stated margin of error may be added and subtracted freely. Therefore, when talking about surveys as a whole (as in my question's two original examples), sample of error should, mathematically speaking, be referred to as per cent and not percentage points.
in different ways, but to the same end. It is my 'feeling' as a native speaker that 'percentage points' is perfectly acceptable in your specific context, and certainly not "superfluous" (BTW, you might want to check the exact meaning of the latter word...)
A 'margin of error' is surely by definition relative — to that which is being measured.
However, what if the survey also asked the same respondents if they would buy that soda for $0.10? Their estimate is, say, 98%. How do we apply the margin of error? We can't just add and subtract, because that would give us the range 94.6% to 101.4%, which is impossible. That's why there's also *specific* margin of error along with the *maximum* margin of error:
"The margin of error for a particular individual percentage will usually be smaller than the maximum margin of error quoted for the survey. This maximum only applies when the observed percentage is 50%, and the margin of error shrinks as the percentage approaches the extremes of 0% or 100%." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error#Maximum_and_spe...
I conclude that "margin of error" when applied to *the entire survey*--not to a specific individual estimate--is not relative, but absolute.
While percentage points are not wrong per se , their use in this context (surveys) appears superfluous to me and thus slightly inferior to per cent.
Suppose a survey polled people asking if they would buy a 12-ounce can of Coke for $1.00. Their estimate is, say, 54% of the total population. Since the sample is only a tiny share of the total population, we calculate a margin of error that tells us how accurate or inaccurate that estimate is. If the survey researchers estimate the margin of error at 3.4%, this means that in all likelihood, roughly between 50.6% and 57.4% of the total population would buy a can of Coke for $1.00. This likelihood is a variable you can tweak; typically it's 95%.
A search for "percentage points"+"margin of error" in Google Books throws some useful links and may help resolve the query. It's dry today and I must drop this and mow the lawn.
Even when we're not talking about a research paper or a scientific article, it's a statistical term. I was in two minds about selecting Social as the field for this question.
I am with Tony. I prefer 'per cent' and if the text had a mathematical bias, I would certainly not use 'percentage points'. However, in social sciences I expect 'percentage points' is acceptable and there is no need to change it. I don't think Donal's point is relevant here.
In this non-critical non-mathematical context, I don't believe there IS a specific difference in meaning at all; the terms are interchangeable, at the discretion of the writer. In some fields (particularly business and finance, for example), 'percentage points' are common and so there may be a tendency to favour them; in other fields, they are probably less current, and so the writer might not feel the need to use them. note that in some fields 'points' alone will be used, the 'percentage' being implicit. "A 4-point rise in share prices augurs well for..."
Both versions see similar usage on the web in my context, so I'm trying to get to the root of the difference and determine which term is more accurate. If you have any authoritative references to share, I would very much appreciate it.
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Answers
5 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +5
percentage points
Explanation: Not really — in both your examples, 'percentage points' is fine, so there is no 'should' about it; it would certainly not be wrong to change them — but it is fine as it stands.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 12 minutes (2015-06-04 16:21:28 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
We tend to use 'percent' when referring to some absolute value: "the election turnout was 57%" But we tend to use 'percentage points' when referring to some relative value: "that was 4 percentage points down on last year" In the first instance, it would sound distinctly odd to use 'percentage points' (i'd say arguably downright wrong), whereas in the latter, either sounds fine.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 31 minutes (2015-06-04 16:39:59 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I don't see why you say this doesn't apply to your context! What's so special or different about your context? I thought I had made it abundantly clear: when talking about an absolute value of percent, it is more natural (and I believe more correct) to use 'percent' — or indeed often the symbol %. However, where relative percentage points are being talked about (your case exactly!), then I feel percentage points is not only acceptable, but to some extent even preferable.
Where a context contains BOTH absolute AND relative values, I think it is less confusing to simply stick with 'percent' everywhere — unless there is the potential ambiguity as highlighted by Donal.
'Percentage points' are ONLY really used in the rarer case of relative percentages where no absolutes are being cited. And then only usually when describing some trend etc.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 36 minutes (2015-06-04 16:45:02 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
No of course it's not an 'absolute' value — the whole point of a 'margin of error' is that it is a 'relative' value, like a tolerance: "230V ±10%"
If it were an absolute value, it would imply that the MoE was say "10% of the whole sample set"
Tony M France Local time: 21:07 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thank you for your help
Notes to answerer
Asker: I understand that, but my context falls under neither category
Asker: Actually, you're right: my context falls under the first category. Margin of error is "an absolute value"!
Asker: Here's why I believe it is an absolute value:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Margin_of_error#Maximum_and_specific_margins_of_error
peer agreement (net): +5