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English language (monolingual) [PRO] General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / history, 1600: Girolamo Cardano
English term or phrase:white-skinned
I can't understand the meaning of white-skinned in this context, why Cardano is using this term for his countrymen...
“You liked the English, didn’t you?” I have read his description of the sixteenth-century inhabitants of London, published posthumously in his Somniorum Synesiorum. They seem to him “urbane and friendly to the stranger”, like white-skinned Italians. His observation is that, as well as being hairy, they are broad-chested, quickly angered (“and in that state to be dreaded”), almost as gluttonous as the Germans and utterly unafraid of death. “With kisses and salutations parents and children part,” he writes later. “The dying say that they depart into immortal life, that they shall there await those left behind; and each exhorts the other to retain him in his memory. Cheerfully, without blenching, without tottering, they bear with constant the final doom.”
Charles, I don't know how to thank you. And thank you also to missdutch: (yes, I had found the italian version, and then immediately forgot it.....:-))
Benedetta, there is an Italian translation of this book – Dialogo sulla morte – see: http://www.ninoaragnoeditore.it/?mod=COLLANE&id_collana=23&o... @Charles: my Latin is rather rusty, but I think the English translation of that passage is quite spot-on (correct me, if I'm wrong). Besides, a very important point is that De Morte was written in 1561, while Italy was first unified as a country 300 years later, in 1861. I may be wrong, but I'm quite sure that, during the Renaissance, there wasn't yet a cultural/sociological or whatever distinction between the South and the North of Italy, as Italy geographically was – and still is, no matter how many (racist) Italians can't stomach that – a country in Southern Europe.
ALB. Quali forma corporis? Quali habitu? CARD. Forma Italicae simillima: candidi sunt, et nobis candidiores; non adeo rubri, lato pectore. Sunt inter eos quidam eximia corporis proceritate, moribus mansueti, ac advenis amici, sed faciles ad iram, tumque timendi. Fortes in bello, sed minus cauti; cibi et potus satis avidi, non tamen adeo ut Germani; ad libidinem proniores quam prompti. Ingenia inter illos praeclara. Indicio est Scotus, et Suisset, quibus nulli anteponi possunt. Habitus qualis Italis; se enim propiores illis libenter iactant, ideoque student quantum possunt moribus ac vestitu eos imitari, quandoquidem forma etiam et Germanis et Gallis et Hispanis illis sint similiores. Italos certe Europaei omnes barbari magis diligunt quam inter se quae differunt gentes. Parum abfuit in Belgicae vicinia, quod quendam Hispano similem adolescentem mecum haberem, ne nos omnes trucidarent, at nesciunt illi nostra scelera forsan."
But De Morte is also available online in Latin-Spanish parallel text. I cited this in the question on "plays them up", but unfortunately the link I provided there doesn't seem to work now. You can get it in pdf through this page, though you may have to register; I'm not sure: https://www.academia.edu/6858168/GIROLAMO_CARDANO._GUILLERMO...
Anyway, I'll give this particular passage in the next post.
You are so kind, Charles. I'm trying to find the Latin, as I must translade it in italian, but - even if De Morte, which I found it on Internet Archive, isn't too long - I couldn't find it!! If you found the latin sentence, could you give me reference?
Yup, no need for "Latin" here at all. And, as a fair-skinned Southern Italian, I can confidently say that there are lots of light-skinned Italians in the South, and lots of olive-skinned in the North.
This is a summary of the English translation of Cardano's original Latin, from the 1854 biography of Cardano that I have referred to in previous questions. The English text is actually as follows:
'But what do they [the English] look like, asks a speaker in the dialogue through which Cardan relates familiarly his impressions; what do they look like, and how do they dress? "In figure," he replies, "they are much like the Italians; they are white—whiter than we are, not so ruddy; and they are broad-chested. There are some among them of great stature; urbane and friendly to the stranger, but they are quickly angered, and are in that state to be dreaded [...]"' https://books.google.es/books?id=TuRHAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA143 (starts foot of p. 143).
This, if you'll pardon the expression, puts a different complexion on it. Cardano is not saying that they are urbane and friendly like white-skinned Italians (implying that dark-skinned Italians are less so). He is saying that the English look like Italians except that their skin is white instead of ruddy.
I don't think we need to check the Latin here.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
7 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +12
having a lighter complexion
Explanation: He is saying that the English (of that time) are like Italians in nature but not in appearance. They have lighter complexions.
Terry Richards France Local time: 01:24 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 120
peer agreement (net): +12