structure of the sentence

English translation: Your second proposition is closest

05:06 Oct 21, 2017

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Computers: Systems, Networks / database maintenance system

English term or phrase: structure of the sentence

The overall functional structure of the Network Manager database is shown in Figure 4. The primary data flow in the system is from the RTU point database to the Remote Terminal Unit Communication Server (RCS) point database, and then to the point data area in the Network Manager Avanti database. The data flow related to device control goes in the opposite direction. The processing of the point data is controlled by data structures that contain RCS and RTU control information, event handling definitions, and calculation definitions. Additional control data structures in the time-tagged data area of the database define how point data is periodically accessed, processed, and stored there as time-tagged data.
References between the point data and these control data structures link specific data with specific processing and storage definitions. ***Data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify these references, and the control data structures themselves, to specify the basic data handling and processing functionality of a Network Manager system.***

Please help understand the structure of the sentence. Am I right in guessing that what they mean here is that "data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify", while "control data structures" are used "to specify the basic data handling and processing functionality"?
Or should it be understood like, "data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify the references AND the control data structures", and also "to specify the basic data handling and processing functionality"?
Thank you.

Andrew Vdovin KudoZ activity Questions: 3923 (2 open) (2 closed without grading) Answers: 3924
Local time: 11:39

Selected answer:Your second proposition is closest

Explanation:
"data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify the references AND the control data structures"

and the purpose of doing this is
"[in order] to specify the basic data handling and processing functionality"

The clue to this interpretation is the inclusion of 'themselves', which clearly separates 'control data structures' from the clause that follows.

Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 06:39

Grading comment

Thank you very much Tony! Thanks everybody!!!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

4 +4

Your second proposition is closest

Tony M

Your first proposition is closest

Jennifer Levey

Discussion entries: 3

Katalin Horváth McClure

United States

IMHO, the technical meaning is...

15:06 Oct 23, 2017

...what Tony is saying. The preceding sentence is very important. What the text is explaining is that the point data is getting processed by the Network Manager system, and the way it does it takes the point data and processes it based on the control data structure that is linked to the point data by the reference. It's like you have the point data as your "ingredients", and a collection of procedures (those are control data structures) as your "recipes", and the references link them so that the ingredients get to be cooked up using a certain recipe. Depending on the selected recipe, the outcome will be different, right? The Data Maintenance Utilities can change the recipe selection, as well as add/remove and modify recipes in the cookbook. This is how you define the functionality of your automated cooking machine.

Tony M

France

@ Marco

15:11 Oct 22, 2017

From a purely linguistic point of view, I would agree with your first 2 statement,s but not with the third: it seems to that, for this sentence to have that meaning, it would require an 'and' after the parenthesis ending with '...themselves,'
"...are used to... , ... , AND to...", if you leave out the parenthetic clause, it would otherwise read "... are used to define and modify these references to specify the basic data handling and processing..." — where, without the 'and', the logical interpretation would be 'IN ORDER TO', as I have suggested from the outset.

However, our colleague Robin Levey has pointed out that there are technical points which would tend to invalidate my suggestion, and upon which I am not technically qualified to comment further.

Marco Belcastro Bara

Italy

14:07 Oct 22, 2017

***Data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify these references, and the control data structures themselves, to specify the basic data handling and processing functionality of a Network Manager system.***
IMO this sentence is correct and I see it this way:
1 - Data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify these references.
2 - Data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify the control data structures themselves.
3 - Data maintenance utilities are used to to specify the basic data handling and processing functionality of a Network Manager system.

Answers

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

Your second proposition is closest

Tony M
France
Local time: 06:39
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

Grading comment

Thank you very much Tony! Thanks everybody!!!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Jack Doughty: But it is ambiguous. I was about to submit a contrary answer, but on reading it again, I realised you are right.

31 mins

-> Thanks, Jack! I think the fact that the 'and... themselves' clause is a parenthesis really clears that ambiguity; where it not, then I agree, it wouldn't be clear.

agree

Charles Davis: Without properly understanding the substance of this, I clearly read it your way, partly for the reason you mention, but also because of the comma after themselves, which, to me, rules out the alternative (I suppose this is your point about parenthesis).

2 hrs

-> Thanks, Charles! Yes, exactly: if you leave out the clause in parenthesis, it makes sense, and could not logically be parsed any other way. The use of 'themselves' "gets in the way"!

neutral

B D Finch: But shouldn't it read "... as well as to specify the basic data handling ..."? Doesn't that omission does leave a question mark over whether the commas have been used correctly?

12 hrs

-> Thanks, B! To me, the commas (assuming used correctly!) make it clear that these are 2 different applications of 'to', with the implicit sens of 'in order to' as I have suggested; but Robin has an alternative interpretation, assuming a S/T error.

neutral

Jennifer Levey: This interpretation is extremely unlikely to be correct, from a purely technical viewpoint.

12 hrs

-> Thanks, Robin! I understand what you are saying, but am not qualified to comment further on that point.

agree

Katalin Horváth McClure: This is the right interpretation, the comma after "references" should not be there, and indeed, "to specify" is meant as "in order to specify". This makes sense from the technical point of view as well.

2 days 8 hrs

-> Thanks, Katalin!

agree

acetran

4 days

-> Thanks, Ace!

6 hrs confidence:

Your first proposition is closest

Explanation:
The sentence is grammatically ambiguous, but clear in context (and with an understanding of the technicalities involved here).

It would be unambiguous – and correct – if it has been written thus:

Data maintenance utilities are used to define and modify these references, WHILE the control data structures (delete: themselves, to) specify the basic data handling and processing functionality of a Network Manager system.

This interpretation is confirmed, technically, by the fact that the periodic “accessing, processing and storage” of the point data in the sentence: “Additional control data structures in the time-tagged data area of the database define how point data is periodically accessed, processed, and stored there as time-tagged data”, are all part of the “basic data handling” referred to in the last sentence of the first paragraph where the overall purpose of the control data structures is stated.

Also from a technical standpoint, it would be unusual for a “control data structure” to be “defined and modified” at run-time.

Jennifer Levey
Chile
Local time: 00:39
Native speaker of:

English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

Tony M: I see the technical logic of what you're suggesting — but it requires the assumption of a pretty whopping s/t error, in what appears otherwise to be a quite well written text. Would require an impliict 'are used ...' after 'elsewhere', which is possible.

7 hrs

-> A technical text which is ambiguous can never be regarded as "quite well written". And in technical texts, logic must prevail over bad punctuation. In any case, my proposed re-writing is only to illustrate the meaning - the ST is sloppy, not 'wrong'.

neutral

Katalin Horváth McClure: I don't think so. The text does not say the utilities are modifying anything at runtime. The role of the references should not be forgotten when we try to decipher this. The data structures themselves are not enough to specify the functionality.

2 days 2 hrs

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