"explaining form by superimposed colour, as in architectural mouldings"

English translation: Ruskin held that form was disguised, not revealed, by the use of colour

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:"explaining form by superimposed colour, as in architectural mouldings"
Selected answer:Ruskin held that form was disguised, not revealed, by the use of colour
Entered by: B D Finch

16:21 Aug 24, 2011
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting
English term or phrase: "explaining form by superimposed colour, as in architectural mouldings"
Ruskin is sometimes hard to understand. Can you please explain what he means below? Or rephrase? Thank you.

"...but all notions of explaining form by superimposed color, as in architectural mouldings, are absurd."

It's from the Elements of Drawing, p. 232. Here's the link:http://books.google.gr/books?id=vETE8iY2H-QC&pg=PA232&lpg=PA...
Shakesperean
Ruskin held that form was disguised, not revealed, by the use of colour
Explanation:
As your reference is, unfortunately, in Greek, I cannot refer to the actual quotation. However, I suspect that Ruskin was writing about drawing and painting, not architecture and that he was using the example of architectural mouldings being picked out in a contrasting colour to that of the walls or ceilings as a waspish criticism. In other words, if you use colour in your work to try to show form, you should give up fine art and become a housepainter instead.

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Note added at 2 hrs (2011-08-24 19:20:46 GMT)
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I equally suspect that Ruskin was not writing specifically about drawings/paintings of buildings, but about drawing and painting in general. The Impressionists later used light and colour in a way that dissolved form.

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Note added at 16 hrs (2011-08-25 08:29:01 GMT)
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Thanks for the reference, I had forgotten how good Ruskin was and must get a paper copy! The reason Ruskin used the example of architectural mouldings was simply that, given the Victorian fashion for applying them to their walls and ceilings and picking them out using colour, it was a very familiar image. The mouldings broke the flatness of the surfaces they were applied to and picking them out in colour was meant to both draw attention to them (it showed you had the money to buy them and some were much more expensive and exclusive than others) and to emphasise their effect. He also uses apples and cheeks as images to make the same point.

By superimposed colour, I don't think he means layering washes of colour, but superimposing local colour on the object. I take back what I wrote above about Ruskin dismissing atmospheric perspective, as he convincingly defends it here. However, I still think he is quite wrong about hue and advancing and recessive colour, though to a large extent he is arguing in opposition to the mechanical understanding of that effect. The apparent distance effect of a colour does depend on how it relates to other colours around it. Some years ago, I painted the ceiling of a small, high-ceilinged room in a dusty mid-tone pink to lower it and make the room seem larger. I believe it worked very well and other people agreed. Had I painted the walls red, it would not have worked, but painting them pale grey allowed the pink to have the effect of advancing the surface it was painted on.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 11:05
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4Showing the shape of a building in your drawing by using colour to define areas
Liz Dexter (was Broomfield)
4attempting to express/portray depth in moldings by using different colors
Stephanie Ezrol
4Ruskin held that form was disguised, not revealed, by the use of colour
B D Finch
4superimposed (layers of) color cannot replicate form (architectural mouldings being an example)
Jenni Lukac (X)


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Showing the shape of a building in your drawing by using colour to define areas


Explanation:
The author is saying that there is a tendency to use colour in a picture to bring out details in the architecture, but that this should be done by some subtler means.

Liz Dexter (was Broomfield)
United Kingdom
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you.

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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
attempting to express/portray depth in moldings by using different colors


Explanation:
I found more of the same piece on line and I think the following section makes more clear what Ruskin is saying:

It is a favourite dogma among modern writers on colour that "warm colours" (reds and yellows) "approach" or express nearness, and "cold colours" (blue and grey) "retire" or express distance. So far is this from being the case, that no expression of distance in the world is so great as that of the gold and orange in twilight sky. Colours, as such, are ABSOLUTELY inexpressive respecting distance.
http://www.readbookonline.net/read/19622/56180/

He is countering what he says is a theory of colors and the perception of depth or distance. He is saying that this theory is stupid and that it does not cohere with human perceptions of depth or distance.

Stephanie Ezrol
United States
Local time: 05:05
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 27
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for your help.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: He was, of course, completely wrong in dismissing the effect of colour in atmospheric perspective (though not about colour dissolving form). Depiction of form and of perspective, though related, are not at all the same.
8 mins
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Ruskin held that form was disguised, not revealed, by the use of colour


Explanation:
As your reference is, unfortunately, in Greek, I cannot refer to the actual quotation. However, I suspect that Ruskin was writing about drawing and painting, not architecture and that he was using the example of architectural mouldings being picked out in a contrasting colour to that of the walls or ceilings as a waspish criticism. In other words, if you use colour in your work to try to show form, you should give up fine art and become a housepainter instead.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2011-08-24 19:20:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I equally suspect that Ruskin was not writing specifically about drawings/paintings of buildings, but about drawing and painting in general. The Impressionists later used light and colour in a way that dissolved form.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 hrs (2011-08-25 08:29:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thanks for the reference, I had forgotten how good Ruskin was and must get a paper copy! The reason Ruskin used the example of architectural mouldings was simply that, given the Victorian fashion for applying them to their walls and ceilings and picking them out using colour, it was a very familiar image. The mouldings broke the flatness of the surfaces they were applied to and picking them out in colour was meant to both draw attention to them (it showed you had the money to buy them and some were much more expensive and exclusive than others) and to emphasise their effect. He also uses apples and cheeks as images to make the same point.

By superimposed colour, I don't think he means layering washes of colour, but superimposing local colour on the object. I take back what I wrote above about Ruskin dismissing atmospheric perspective, as he convincingly defends it here. However, I still think he is quite wrong about hue and advancing and recessive colour, though to a large extent he is arguing in opposition to the mechanical understanding of that effect. The apparent distance effect of a colour does depend on how it relates to other colours around it. Some years ago, I painted the ceiling of a small, high-ceilinged room in a dusty mid-tone pink to lower it and make the room seem larger. I believe it worked very well and other people agreed. Had I painted the walls red, it would not have worked, but painting them pale grey allowed the pink to have the effect of advancing the surface it was painted on.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 11:05
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: Here's another link to the actual quotation (http://www.gutenberg.org/files/30325/30325-h/30325-h.htm#Footnote_51) (par. 183, endnote no. 51.) So yes, basically what Ruskin was saying is that local colour cannot really express form. But I'm not sure I understand why he used "architectural mouldings" as an example. What do architectural mouldings have to do with the expression of form and why this particular example. Thank you.

Asker: Thank you. It makes sense now. And I agree with you that he is wrong about advancing and recessive colour. Warm colours generally tend to "strike the eye" more quickly than cool ones. :-)

Asker: I've been trying to select this answer as most helpful, but the links don't work. Page loads with error in every browser I've used. It's a site problem, which I hope ProZ.com staff will be able to solve some time soon.

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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
superimposed (layers of) color cannot replicate form (architectural mouldings being an example)


Explanation:
Ruskin believes that color cannot replicate the form of an object. He is criticizing the layering colors to indicate depth or projection as a "crutch." In this text, he goes on to explain that: "An apple is prettier, because it is striped, but it does not look a bit rounder; and a cheek is prettier because it is flushed, but you would see the form of the cheek bone better if it were not. Colour may, indeed, detach one shape from another, as in grounding a bas-relief, but it always diminishes the appearance of projection . . ." He wants to emphasize that color is an adornment and not a means of rendering the structure and dimensionality of an object. When he says "The blue ground will not retire the hundredth part of an inch more than the red one," he is disputing the practice of using a complementary color to give the effect of depth -- the illusion that an object, or a part of an object, is closer or farther away in a composition. He was generally in favor of reducing the number of colors in an artist's palette.

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Note added at 23 hrs (2011-08-25 15:27:51 GMT)
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Thanks for the note! This was my second thought, but I didn't want to stay too far away from the pictorial so I didn't mention it. However, Ruskin is talking about representation, not house painting, so I would think hard before trusting that interpretation 100%. I went back and forth over the two possibilities.

Jenni Lukac (X)
Local time: 11:05
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 24
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you for your explanation. I'm not sure why he is using architectural mouldings as an example.

Asker: Thank you Jenni for your help and the links you came up with. Having thought long and hard on this, I tend to conclud that Victorians used colour on architectural mouldings (superimposing it) in ways that would express form, by making certain elements stand out. This picture is an example of this kind of architecture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:GovernmentHouseMelbourne4_gobeirne.jpg. Thanks again for your help.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: Ruskin is attacking the idea that you can model form by using local colour and this isn't about layering colours. Also the illusion of depth is about colour temperature, not complementarity.// Blue and red aren't complementary but are opposites for temp.
12 hrs
  -> I stand by what I've put here, BD. Color temperature is very important consideration, but would go beyond the reference cited.
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