breeder document

Serbian translation: dokument koji potvrdjuje identite osobe

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

English term or phrase:	breeder document
Serbian translation:	dokument koji potvrdjuje identite osobe
Entered by:	Goran & Snežana Erdei

11:30 Dec 14, 2012

English to Serbian translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs

English term or phrase: breeder document

Radi se o tenderskoj dokumentaciji firme koja se bavi štampanjem ličnih karti, pasoša, srećki i drugih sličnih dokumenata.

Evo konteksta:

Our product range includes electronic and non-electronic ID Documents (passports, breeder documents, national ID cards, entry visas, residence permits), driving licenses, electronic vehicle registration cards and other security products like postage stamps, banderols, lottery tickets, cash vouchers etc.

Evo definicije pojma breeder documents:

Breeder document are documents used for access to other forms of legitimate identification, such as a driver’s license, for the purpose of establishing a false identity. For example, a consular identification card (CID card), issued by the Mexican government to their citizens living in a foreign country, such as the U.S. is a breeder document. Such breeder documents can be used for facilitating consular notification to protect certain legal rights of cardholders, regardless of their residency status in a foreign country.

Goran & Snežana Erdei KudoZ activity Questions: 659 (none open) (29 closed without grading) Answers: 266 Serbia
Local time: 03:42

dokument koji potvrdjuje identite osobe

Explanation:
Kao sto je predlozio kolega, nek stoji i kao odgovor :)

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Note added at 2 hrs (2012-12-14 13:49:40 GMT)
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Naravno identiteT...

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Note added at 19 hrs (2012-12-15 07:12:28 GMT)
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Ako se firma bavi elektronskim i stampanim verzijama obrazaca, logicno bi bilo da su to obrasci dokumenata za potvrdu identiteta, a sluze za dobijanje ostalih isprava.

Selected response from:

Natasa Djurovic
Serbia
Local time: 03:42

Grading comment

Hvala vam Nataša.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

улазни документ

nzirojevic

5 -1

obrasci za identifikacione dokumente

Ljiljana Krstic

bazični dokument

Nenad Radosavljević

dokument koji potvrdjuje identite osobe

Natasa Djurovic

3 -2

početni / osnovni (lični) dokumenti

Daryo

Summary of reference entries provided

dokument koji potvrdjuje identitet osobe

Natasa Djurovic

base documents

Daryo

breeder document

Mira Stepanovic

Discussion entries: 8

nzirojevic

14:39 Dec 17, 2012

Можда се "улазни документи" на Google-у појављују у другом контексту или значењу, ја нисам ни тврдила другачије. Једноставно сам навела рјешење које се користи у струци, ограђујући се при том (ако сте пажљиво прочитали до краја) од тврдње да је то једини или најбољи термин.
Нешто о томе можете прочитати и овдје:
http://parco.gov.ba/cyrl/?page=23&kat=2&vijest=1747

Mira Stepanovic

Serbia

12:11 Dec 17, 2012

već postoji u vašem rešenju, lako je dodati "polazni" prilikom unosa u glosar; smatram da ste ponudili najbitniji deo "dokument koji potvrdjuje identitet osobe" tj. "dokument za utvrđivanje identiteta). :-)

Natasa Djurovic

Serbia

11:49 Dec 17, 2012

Slazem se sa Mirom da ulazni dokument nosi sasvim drugu konotaciju. Predlazem koleginici Miri da postavi polazni dokument kao resenje ove zamrsene situacije, jer nekako najbolje pase kao resenje :)

Mira Stepanovic

Serbia

@ nzirojevic

11:45 Dec 17, 2012

Kao što sami navodite: "... документима које користимо као полазиште за успостављање идентитета" - zar ne bi bilo logičnije da su to "polazni dokumenti za uspostavljanje/utvrđivanje identiteta" kao što već stoji kod koleginice Nataše? Ne tvrdim da sam 100% u pravu ali "ulazni dokumenti" se na Google-u pojavljuju u sasvim drugom kontekstu. I zaista verujem da bi "identitet" negde morao da se pojavi u prevodu jer je evidentno da mi nemamo kratko i jasno definisan taj pojam za razliku od "breeder document" u engleskom jeziku. "Ulazni dokumenti" mogu biti svašta u srpskom jeziku, pogledajte molim vas:
https://www.google.com/search?q=ulazni dokument&ie=utf-8&oe=...

Daryo

United Kingdom

02:02 Dec 17, 2012

"улазни документи" – савршено одговара, ако је то устаљени термин предложите га као превод.

nzirojevic

11:07 Dec 16, 2012

Пошто радим на пословима везаним за поступак издавања личних докумената, могу са сигурношћу рећи да појмом "breeder documents" означавамо документа на основу којих се успоставља идентитет особе. У нашем систему то су изводи из разних евиденција (нпр. матичне књиге рођених, књиге држављана). Дакле, није ријеч о идентификационим или личним документима, нити документима којима се потврђује идентитет (идентитет се потврђује личном картом, пасошем или сличним документом који садржи фотографију), него о документима које користимо као полазиште за успостављање идентитета. Устаљени термин који користимо у пракси је "улазни документи", јер се на основу њих покреће поступак издавања личних/идентификационих докумената. Уколико се термин користи у комуникацији са особама које се не баве пословима везаним за издавање докумената обично у загради ради појашњења наведемо ове врсте докумената.

Можда постоји и бољи термин, али ово је суштински садржај појма.

Daryo

United Kingdom

01:23 Dec 16, 2012

This company is printing empty forms for all kind of documents - nevertheless the concept of "breeder document" is not about empty forms, but about the relation between two validly filled documents - one document being used for / the base for issuing the other document. A correctly filled and validated Birth Certificate (not a blank form) is a "breeder document" to obtain an Identity Card; a valid Identity Card is a "breeder document" for a Passport - you can use it to obtain a passport, etc.
As far as I know, it's a new concept in Serbian, so you need to find a new name for "breeder document", to avoid any confusion with existing concepts.
"početni" / "osnovni" / "polazni" ... or maybe something else not already used in some other way ("izvorni" would be a good option if it wasn't already used to mean the opposite of a copy)

Natasa Djurovic

Serbia

07:06 Dec 15, 2012

Mislim da se jednostavno odnosi na obrazac ili formu dokumenta koja se u stampanoj verziji izdaje strankama: obrazac za krstenicu je uvek u istoj formi za sve nas. Pa prema tome to bi trebalo da je forma za dokument koji potvrdjuje identitet osobe.

Answers

4 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): -2

početni / osnovni (lični) dokumenti

Explanation:
This is a company printing all sorts of documents including "breeder documents";
from the context it's obvious there's no negative connotation whatsoever - this company is "the" company printing the authentic blank documents.
"breeder document" are also called "base documents" - they are the base for further issuing various other ID documents. A blank Birth Certificate form is an obvious "breeder document" - once it's been filled.

These documents are the "source" for other ID documents - "izvorni" looks like a good option - but it could be misunderstood as "izvorni" vs "kopija" instead of "izvorni" vs "izvedeni".

"osnovni" could be an other option - ti dokumenti su osnova za izdavanje drugih ličnih dokumenata (by analogy with "osnovni podaci" /"izvedeni podaci").

"osnovni (lični) dokumenti" is already in use, in a similar meaning as here:

"... Veliki broj Roma se rađa, živi, ali i umire u BiH, a da nikada nema dokaza o njihovom postojanju. Lična karta, zdravstvena knjižica i drugi osnovni dokumenti su daleki san mnogih Roma. ..."
[http://tocak.org/tema/licni-dokumenti-san-svakog-roma]

On the other hand, "početni lični dokumenti" is not currently used for anything else, so it wouldn't be confused with anything else, which is preferable for a new concept.

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:42
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

French
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

disagree

Natasa Djurovic: I have been living in Serbia for 45 years and I never heard for any of these options. I know how to use Internet, my remark is referred to your Serbian translation: pocetni/ osnovni dokumenti and I disagree again. We are supposed to find the right term

14 hrs

-> Of course not - it's how it's meant to be - I never heard either before from anyone in Serbia talking of the concept of BREEDER document, so obviously any translation for a NEW concept is very likely to be something you never heard of before - logical?

disagree

Mira Stepanovic: Ovde je key word "identity (document)" - to nije isto što i lični dokument. Npr. zdravstvena knjižica je lični dokument ali ona ne može da se upotrebi za utvrđvanje identiteta, naprotiv, uz nju se mora pokazati lična karta.

1 day 16 hrs

-> IMK je lični dokument?

2 hrs confidence:

dokument koji potvrdjuje identite osobe

Natasa Djurovic
Serbia
Local time: 03:42
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Serbian
PRO pts in category: 24

Grading comment

Hvala vam Nataša.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Goran Tasic

11 mins

-> Hvala!

disagree

Daryo: key element missing: "breeder". ALL ID documents are supposed to be "dokument koji potvrdjuje identitet osobe", but not all ID documents are "breeder" documents, so how do you make the distinction?

2 hrs

-> Da, naravno sada sam vec sigurna: Obrazac/obrasci za potvrdu identiteta.

agree

Mira Stepanovic: www.eurosong.hr/viza_dokumenti.doc Kopija originalne putovnice ili dokumenta koji potvrđuje identitet osobe koja se prijavljuje; ili možda "polazni dokument za izdavanje ostalih dokumenata koji potvrdjuju identitet"

18 hrs

-> Naravno, mozda je polazni dokument priblizno i najbolje resenje, hvala Miro!

disagree

nzirojevic: На основу тих докумената не можете утврдити нити потврдити нечији идентитет, за то служе искључиво идентификациона документа (пасоши, личне карте и други еквивалентни документи)

3 days 1 hr

-> Da, ali kao polazni dokument za utvrdjivanje identiteta, vi utvrdjujete da je Pera Pera, a ne Mika. Da ne pricamo o tome da se identitet lako moze falsirati i na licnoj karti, pasosu...

21 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

obrasci za identifikacione dokumente

Explanation:
očigledno je da je reč o obrascima, a ne samim identifikacionim dokumenima

Ljiljana Krstic
Serbia
Local time: 03:42
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Serbian

2 days 23 hrs confidence:

улазни документ

Explanation:
Појашњење је дато у дискусији, овај термин се користи у контексту система за издавање личних докумената.

nzirojevic
Local time: 03:42
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

Bosnian

3 days 23 hrs confidence:

bazični dokument

Explanation:
24 Engl. „breeder documents“ (rodni list, vjenčani list, etc.) – bazični dokumenti koji se
koriste prilikom izdavanja identifikacionih dokumenata, kao što je pasoš

Reference: http://www.acips.ba/bos/uploads/istrazivanja/acips_vize_bos....

Nenad Radosavljević
Serbia
Local time: 03:42
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Serbian

Reference comments

29 mins peer agreement (net): +1

Reference: dokument koji potvrdjuje identitet osobe

Reference information:
http://thefranco-americanflophouse.blogspot.com/2012/02/bree...

Ustaljenog prevoda nema i obicno je u vezi sa kradjom identiteta neke osobe.

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Note added at 30 mins (2012-12-14 12:00:49 GMT)
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A very loose definition of Breeder Document would simply be: a document that allows you to obtain other documents. A birth certificate is probably the most common one because it establishes all sorts of things: that you were born (good to know), where and when, and who your parents were. That document can be matched against existing law in the country where you live to allow you to obtain other documents like a driver's license, an identity card, a voting card, a national health card and even a certificate of nationality.

Natasa Djurovic
Serbia
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Serbian
PRO pts in category: 24

2 hrs

Reference: base documents

Reference information:
Breeder documents are used as "base documents" to issues other ID documents i.e. to "breed" them on the fertile soil of the breeder/base document.

"breeder document" is used in general when talking of ID documents, not necessarily implying any kind of fraud or ID theft.

" THE ABCs OF IDs FOR U.S. IMMIGRANTS

... Improving the Integrity of IDs: Some Challenges

As policymakers work to improve the integrity of identity documents, they are faced not only with combating increased criminal use of widely available technologies to create false documents and increased instances of fraud and identity theft, but also with preserving the privacy of Americans. Ensuring authentic identity documents begins with maintaining the security of base documents. Falsification of a base document (also known as breeder documents) such as a birth certificate or Social Security Card makes it possible to claim a false identity on more sophisticated documents such as a driver’s license or passport. In addition, occasions of fraud and abuse in records agencies make it difficult to combat the falsification of base documents.
Government agencies review an ID applicant’s base documents to ensure they are accurate and valid, i.e., that the identity presented on the ID is authentic and refers to the person presenting the ID and that the document is eligible to be used. This can consist of a visual review of the documents and a check against government databases collected by various agencies, including law enforcement, consular offices, immigration offices, and child support agencies. ..."
[http://epic.org/events/id/resources/immigrant.pdf]

"Ad-Hoc Query on Identification Requirements for Alien’s Passports
...
Portugal

1. Yes. Although the person’s identity is established, sometimes it is difficult to confirm it, mainly in the cases of residence under humanitarian grounds when the person is undocumented.
2. The identity is established by identity documents or declared identity. The documents required are the passport, the identity card or some breeder documents.
3. In the cases of declared identity (without identity documents) there is any note about it in the Alien’s passport.
….
[http://www.sisekaitse.ee/public/ERV/ad_hoc/muu/Compilation_-...]

Daryo
United Kingdom
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

French
PRO pts in category: 11

21 hrs peer agreement (net): +2

Reference: breeder document

Reference information:
https://www.google.com/search?q="документ који потврђује иде...

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Note added at 21 hrs (2012-12-15 09:05:23 GMT)
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http://www.ssa.gov/history/reports/ssnreportc4.html
Breeder Documents

The Social Security card verifies the fact that SSA has assigned a number to a particular person based on a certain set of identity data. However, the identity data contained in Social Security records are only as reliable as the evidence on which the data is based. The documents a Social Security card applicant must present to SSA or another authorized agency to establish age, identity, and citizenship or noncitizen status for an original Social Security card--primarily a birth certificate and immigration documents and referred to as breeder documents--have been relatively easy to alter, counterfeit, or obtain fraudulently in the past.(2) (Breeder documents are documents that are used to obtain other documents used for identity; e.g., a birth certificate is used to obtain a drivers license which is then used as an identity document.)

Mira Stepanovic
Serbia
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

Serbo-Croat
PRO pts in category: 20

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breeder document

Serbian translation: dokument koji potvrdjuje identite osobe

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