Cut nature at the joints

Portuguese translation: demarcar a natureza / definir a doença

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:Cut nature at the joints
Portuguese translation:demarcar a natureza / definir a doença
Entered by: Cidália Martins (X)

17:57 Jun 9, 2003
English to Portuguese translations [PRO]
Medical - Psychology / Psychology
English term or phrase: Cut nature at the joints
Since the cognitive, affective and conative elements of the deluded person's experience all play an important role in the person's intentions, which form the basis of his actions, it is difficult to see how the conventional clinical definition "cuts nature at the joints"

Seria "aparar arestas"?
Mariane Oliveira
Brazil
Local time: 13:41
demarcar a natureza / definir a doença
Explanation:
Associação Brasileira de Ensino de Psicologia - ABEP

www.abepsi.org.br/diretrizes/frames/ fr_diretrizes_proposta%20do%20MEC_20-2-02.htm

"Interfaces com campos afins do conhecimento para demarcar a natureza e a especificidade do fenômeno psicológico e percebê-lo em sua interação com fenômenos biológicos, humanos e sociais, assegurando uma compreensão integral e contextualizada dos fenômenos e processos psicológicos."

--------------

Reflections on Schizophrenia:

http://web.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~jay/S_essay1.htm

Because of these conceptual ambiguities, the clinical concept is also weak epistemologically: These criteria are not signs of pathology per se. Since delusions have been recognized as an important feature of madness, one would think that their clinical definition would clearly demarcate their presence and CUT NATURE AT THE JOINTS. However, as Rosenhan and his colleagues showed (1973), it is quite difficult even for highly trained clinicians to know, based on purely cognitive criteria, if a patient is truly ill or just feigning psychosis. Hence, if we treat this definition
operationally (as is the current goal with the DSM), we are simply not able, unambiguously, to plug in patients
because many non-delusional people would "fit" the criteria while many delusional people would not.

-----------------------

http://www.ijponline.org/April2001/indIJPEditorial.html

Kraepelin's textbook in 1893 was a historical document. In giving a careful account of "dementia praecox", as a distinct disease, Kraepelin had handed over psychiatry its most powerful term of the twentieth century. Kraepelin emphasized that all he knew had been learned from experience, that data gathered from patients lay behind every assertion, and that his ultimate objective was to try and CUT NATURE AT THE JOINTS: to identify natural disease
entities.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-06-09 19:39:05 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


*********************************************

definir uma doença psicológica como sendo de natureza predominantemente biológica

*********************************************
Selected response from:

Cidália Martins (X)
Grading comment
A última frase foi a definitiva.
Obrigada!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5demarcar a natureza / definir a doença
Cidália Martins (X)
5 +1"dissecar" o orgânico, encontrar as causas físicasde uma doença, dar primazia ao físico, ao orgânico
Lúcia Lopes
4 +2corta o mal pela raiz
Roberto Cavalcanti
5limar as arestas
Gabriela Frazao
1prejudica o temperamento nas associações
Clauwolf


  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
prejudica o temperamento nas associações


Explanation:
:)

Clauwolf
Local time: 13:41
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 10
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
corta o mal pela raiz


Explanation:
não seria isso?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-06-09 19:54:36 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Because science seeks to understand nature, rather than use arbitrary definitions, it should produce categories grouping the ‘stuff’ of the universe according to its main causal forces (what philosophers call ‘cutting nature at the joints’). A new definition not improving our language in this way may be adopted without loss by diviners, priests, politicians, and ordinary laypeople, but not by scientists.
http://www.psych.upenn.edu/~fjgil/Connor.pdf

Depois de ver o artigo acima reformulo para: dissecar a natureza pelas juntas, cujo significado seria uma classificação de acordo com a natureza

Roberto Cavalcanti
Brazil
Local time: 13:41
Native speaker of: Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lúcia Lopes: juro que li tua resposta só agora, depois de ter dado a minha; também gostei de usar o termo "dissecar", é querer encontrar as causas do orgânico no orgânico, o "leit-motiv" orgânico das patologias :-)
2 hrs
  -> Grato

agree  Cidália Martins (X): sim, dissecar
8 hrs
  -> Grato
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
limar as arestas


Explanation:
Pt-pt

Gabriela Frazao
Portugal
Local time: 17:41
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
demarcar a natureza / definir a doença


Explanation:
Associação Brasileira de Ensino de Psicologia - ABEP

www.abepsi.org.br/diretrizes/frames/ fr_diretrizes_proposta%20do%20MEC_20-2-02.htm

"Interfaces com campos afins do conhecimento para demarcar a natureza e a especificidade do fenômeno psicológico e percebê-lo em sua interação com fenômenos biológicos, humanos e sociais, assegurando uma compreensão integral e contextualizada dos fenômenos e processos psicológicos."

--------------

Reflections on Schizophrenia:

http://web.sfc.keio.ac.jp/~jay/S_essay1.htm

Because of these conceptual ambiguities, the clinical concept is also weak epistemologically: These criteria are not signs of pathology per se. Since delusions have been recognized as an important feature of madness, one would think that their clinical definition would clearly demarcate their presence and CUT NATURE AT THE JOINTS. However, as Rosenhan and his colleagues showed (1973), it is quite difficult even for highly trained clinicians to know, based on purely cognitive criteria, if a patient is truly ill or just feigning psychosis. Hence, if we treat this definition
operationally (as is the current goal with the DSM), we are simply not able, unambiguously, to plug in patients
because many non-delusional people would "fit" the criteria while many delusional people would not.

-----------------------

http://www.ijponline.org/April2001/indIJPEditorial.html

Kraepelin's textbook in 1893 was a historical document. In giving a careful account of "dementia praecox", as a distinct disease, Kraepelin had handed over psychiatry its most powerful term of the twentieth century. Kraepelin emphasized that all he knew had been learned from experience, that data gathered from patients lay behind every assertion, and that his ultimate objective was to try and CUT NATURE AT THE JOINTS: to identify natural disease
entities.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-06-09 19:39:05 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


*********************************************

definir uma doença psicológica como sendo de natureza predominantemente biológica

*********************************************

Cidália Martins (X)
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
A última frase foi a definitiva.
Obrigada!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Monica Alves: Well researched
46 mins
  -> thank you

agree  Lúcia Lopes: definir uma doença psicológica como sendo de natureza predominantemente biológica, absolutely agreeing upon that! :-)
1 hr
  -> why, thank you!

agree  Henrique Magalhaes
15 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  Kathleen Goldsmith-Killing
16 hrs
  -> thank you

agree  O. Morais
17 hrs
  -> thank you
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
"dissecar" o orgânico, encontrar as causas físicasde uma doença, dar primazia ao físico, ao orgânico


Explanation:
Foi o que pude depreender de alguns textos, como por exemplo o abaixo:

(...) that data gathered from patients lay behind every assertion, and that his ultimate objective was to try and CUT NATURE AT THE JOINTS: TO IDENTIFY NATURAL DISEASE ENTITIES. Although the Kraepelin's classification at this point was quite conventional and most of the concepts were taken from his predecessors, his typology did, however contain one of the product of his own card files: " Psychic process of degeneration" meaning illness that ends in dementia. One subcategory of these was "premature dementia" or dementia praecox. Kraepelin thought that the cause of dementia praecox was biological. However in 1896, in the fifth edition of this text book Kraepelin scrapped the part about degeneration. HE WAS TIRED OF GROUPING DISORDERS ACCORDING TO THEIR SYMPTOMS AND WAS MORE INTERESTED IN THEIR COURSE AND OUTCOME. This was a decisive statement of Kraepelin's shift FROM STUDYING THE PRESUMED CAUSES of psychiatric illness, such as genetics, brain biology and so forth,
TO CONCENTRATE ON CLASSIFYING ILLNESS in a way that would let one predict outcome. PROGNOSIS, NOT CAUSE, WAS IMPORTANT. (Shorter,1997).


    Reference: http://www.ijponline.org/April2001/indIJPEditorial.html
Lúcia Lopes
Brazil
Local time: 13:41
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Cidália Martins (X): dissecar....bom termo
7 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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