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Ancient Persian courier

Persian (Farsi) translation: chaapaar/chapar

10:28 May 27, 2008
English to Persian (Farsi) translations [PRO]
History / History of Persia
English term or phrase: Ancient Persian courier
Hi,

I appreciate that this word simply may not exist in Modern Persian, but I should be fascinated to know what word you use/used to describe an ancient Persian courier. The Ancient Greeks borrowed the word “angaros” from Persian to describe such a man; as he had authority to force men into his service, even in Modern Greek, words derived from the Ancient Persian word are still used to mean forcing people to do things.

The –os isn't important, it’s just an ending, so the word would look more like “angar”.

All the best,

Simon
SeiTT
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:14
Persian (Farsi) translation:chaapaar/chapar
Explanation:
I agree with the word "Chaapaar" for courier. In fact, it is still used in certain context albeit rarely. However, in colloquial Persian "chapari" has retained its attributive meaning of "like a caapaar" as being fast and quick in running, doing sth, or going somwhere.

The word may have Turkish origin, as already mentioned by a colleague, but this is of minor importance as it is Persian now like the many thousands of borrowings into Persian from Arabic and Turkish languages.


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Note added at 5 hrs (2008-05-27 16:20:39 GMT) Post-grading
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Hi!
Sorry, I failed to get your point at first. I am able to check this with an Irnian professor of Iranian ancient languages but it takes time if you don't mind. I may come back with an answer in a few days. Just need your e-mail as this page will p[erhaps disappear to record our transactions. But please also remember that "chaapaar" as it is was used in ancient times like before Iran was borrowing from Turkish. So its Turkish origin is just a speculation not based on sound judgement. I'll try my best to come back with a reasonable answer.

Rousta

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-05-27 16:24:46 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I just have to add one more point. The word is not ansolutely obsolete in present day Persian. It is used to teh extent that it is commonly understood by educated and uneducated alike. It is only not in vogue as teh word post has replaced it in more formal usages.
Thanks
Selected response from:

Ezzatollah Roustazadeh
Local time: 09:44
Grading comment
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The fact is that I would have been particularly interested if the modern word had been derived from “angaros”, but I am still most interested to know what you say in Modern Persian, so thank you very much for your excellent answer.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
5 +2چاپار؛ چپر؛پیک یا نامه رسان ایران قدیم
Alireza Yazdunpanuh
5 +1chaapaar/chapar
Ezzatollah Roustazadeh
5پيك
Behzad Molavi


  

Answers


33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
ancient persian courier
چاپار؛ چپر؛پیک یا نامه رسان ایران قدیم


Explanation:
.

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Note added at 36 mins (2008-05-27 11:04:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

رجوع کنید به فرهنگ مرحوم دهخدا
Chupur ya chapar. Please refer to the late Dehkhoda's dictionary.

Alireza Yazdunpanuh
Iran
Local time: 09:44
Native speaker of: Native in Persian (Farsi)Persian (Farsi)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ramin Vali
6 mins
  -> Thanks!
agree  Alireza Amini
8 mins
  -> Thanks!
neutral  Behzad Molavi: A closer look into Dehkhoda reveals that chaapaar and chapar area Turkish words.
1 hr
  -> Okay, but it was used in old Persian, too, wasn't it? Here we are not primarily concerned with the origin of the words, but rather with their meanings, aren't we?
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ancient persian courier
chaapaar/chapar


Explanation:
I agree with the word "Chaapaar" for courier. In fact, it is still used in certain context albeit rarely. However, in colloquial Persian "chapari" has retained its attributive meaning of "like a caapaar" as being fast and quick in running, doing sth, or going somwhere.

The word may have Turkish origin, as already mentioned by a colleague, but this is of minor importance as it is Persian now like the many thousands of borrowings into Persian from Arabic and Turkish languages.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-05-27 16:20:39 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Hi!
Sorry, I failed to get your point at first. I am able to check this with an Irnian professor of Iranian ancient languages but it takes time if you don't mind. I may come back with an answer in a few days. Just need your e-mail as this page will p[erhaps disappear to record our transactions. But please also remember that "chaapaar" as it is was used in ancient times like before Iran was borrowing from Turkish. So its Turkish origin is just a speculation not based on sound judgement. I'll try my best to come back with a reasonable answer.

Rousta

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2008-05-27 16:24:46 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

I just have to add one more point. The word is not ansolutely obsolete in present day Persian. It is used to teh extent that it is commonly understood by educated and uneducated alike. It is only not in vogue as teh word post has replaced it in more formal usages.
Thanks


Example sentence(s):
  • Chapari boro va biya! (Go and come back quickly!
Ezzatollah Roustazadeh
Local time: 09:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in Persian (Farsi)Persian (Farsi)
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The fact is that I would have been particularly interested if the modern word had been derived from “angaros”, but I am still most interested to know what you say in Modern Persian, so thank you very much for your excellent answer.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Behzad Molavi: I agree with your point of view. However, we are looking for the ancient persian word from which the Greek word Angaros has been derived. I believe only a professor of ancient languages may be able to assist in this regard.
14 mins
agree  Reza Mohammadnia
8 hrs
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1 day 22 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
ancient persian courier
پيك


Explanation:
چاپار is not the word in common use, though it has not turned obsolete, either. "Peyk" as mentioned by Mr. Yazdanpanah, is the word in contemporary usage which has originated from "pedikaa" in Avestan.

eg. motorcylsit couriers in Tehran are called "peyk".

Other terms of antiquity era are: نوند (navand), گسى‌بنده (gosi-bandeh) and پروان (parvaan) which resembles greek "paraverdos" (refer to Bernard Lewis in "Iran in History"; http://www.tau.ac.il/dayancenter/mel/lewis.html)

Nevertheless, I am enthusiastically expecting Mr. Roustazadeh's academic consultation with a professor of ancient Persian.


Behzad Molavi
Australia
Local time: 16:14
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in Persian (Farsi)Persian (Farsi)
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