eat beans from your own bowel

Japanese translation: 他人に頼るより... / ひざまずいて生きるより...

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:eat beans from your own bowel
Japanese translation:他人に頼るより... / ひざまずいて生きるより...
Entered by: jackamano

04:58 Apr 11, 2008
English to Japanese translations [Non-PRO]
Astronomy & Space
English term or phrase: eat beans from your own bowel
"It is better to eat beans from your own bowel, than steak from another man's hand. " Marshall Masters

言いたいことは「他人に頼るよりも自分の世話は自分でしなさい」ということだと思うのですが、from your own bowelは文字通り考えれば「お腹から出た豆」ということは… いくらなんでもそんなの食べられませんよね!? 想像したことが間違っているのでしょうか?
jackamano
Japan
Local time: 22:47
他人に頼るより... / ひざまずいて生きるより...
Explanation:
As noted by others, this was probably an original quote by Marshall Masters, and not very well known to the wider public.
The imagery used is extremely unpleasant, but I don't think you need to take it literally (I think it could be awkward to do a chokuyaku containing 豆...)

It's talking about a person's pride. I believe that you assumed correctly when you guessed that it was about being better to do things for one's self than to rely on others.
"To eat steak from another man's hand" - this is curious in itself, as it implies being hand-fed, like a pet or an animal, and yet it also seems like it could refer to a 'master' being hand-fed by a 'servant' (I thought of Ancient Egyptians or Greeks being hand-fed grapes while being fanned by other servants...)

So to conclude, I think it is saying that it is better to survive -with pride intact - on one's own resources (even if it means surviving by consuming beans that one has already digested, in this case) than to rely on others for things that one cannot be achieved or ascertained without relying on others.

The nuance of the following quote by Emiliano Zapata is slightly difference, but captures the same theme of 'pride,' I think. I hope it might be helpful.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" - Emiliano Zapata
 ひざまずいて生きるより、立って死ぬほうがいい! - エミリアーノ・サパタ

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2008-04-11 23:20:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

apologies for typos:
that one cannot -> that cannot
slightly difference -> slightly different

...need...more...coffee...
Selected response from:

KathyT
Australia
Local time: 23:47
Grading comment
Thank you very much for your explanation in detail. What I wanted to know most was if my guess, which I myself thought was kind of wild. was really correct or not. And you answered in no unclear manner. Thanks again! and have a good coffee
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4いったん食べたもの(豆)をまた反芻する
humbird
3足ることを知る
cinefil
4 -1自力更生
mcc518
3 -1他人に頼るより... / ひざまずいて生きるより...
KathyT


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
自力更生


Explanation:
「他の力に頼らずに自らの力で事を行う」っていうことでしょう。

mcc518
Local time: 21:47
Native speaker of: Native in ChineseChinese
Notes to answerer
Asker: mcc518さん、提案ありがとうございます。cinefilさんの言うとおり、「更生」の意味は含まれていないと思います。それに、私の一番知りたいのは、全体の意味というより、from your own bowelの部分です。Kathyさんのお答えでよいように思いますが…。コメントではなく、答えの形で出していただければと思います。


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  cinefil: 更生の意味はないでしょう
36 mins
  -> 「自力更生」は一つの言葉なんですから、ばらばらにして考えるのはだめですよ。「自力更生」とは他の力を頼まず、全く自分の力によって生活を改めて行くことです。「更生」とは①いきかえること;②反省・信仰などによって心持が根本的に変化すること;③不用品に手を加えて、再び利用できるようにすることです。全く意味が違うでしょう。
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
足ることを知る


Explanation:
http://meigen.shiawasehp.net/r/roushi01.html

cinefil
Japan
Local time: 22:47
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
いったん食べたもの(豆)をまた反芻する


Explanation:
Kathyがこたえるほうがよいとはいいましたが、Jack さんも締め切りもあるだろうし、答えに一刻を争う場合と勝手に決め、答えることにしました。自分がいつも締め切りに追われていますから。
反芻とは**一度飲み下した食べ物を口の中に戻し、かみなおして再び飲み込むこと** また **繰り返し考え、よく味わうこと** と私のデジタル大辞泉にあります。そこで、この解釈では反芻には悪いイメージはありませんが、行為そのものを考えてみるとかなりキタナラシイですね。
ですが2番目の解釈もあり、この言葉には全体的にネガティブなイメージはありません。
私の別の回答のように、この作家の作風に合わせてもっと汚い表現にしてもいいですが、まあこのくらいでいいのでは???

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: humbirdさん、お心遣い感謝します。一番知りたかったのは後半部分で、想像はつきましたが、「まさか!?」という気持ちが強く確認したかったのです。その点、Kathyさんとhumbirdさんのお答えが一番助けとなりました。ありがとうございます。ただ、Kathyさんからも答をいただきましたので、今回はKathyさんのお答えを採用させていただきます。いずれにせよ、ありがとうございました。

Asker: Thank you for reminding me of the principle of translation, be faithful to the original. But as I said before, what I wanted to confirm is if my guess was correct or not. And you and Kathy-san explained me very clearly. Maybe I could figure out some rendition that can reflect both of your opinions in some way or other. Thank you again for your help.

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18 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
他人に頼るより... / ひざまずいて生きるより...


Explanation:
As noted by others, this was probably an original quote by Marshall Masters, and not very well known to the wider public.
The imagery used is extremely unpleasant, but I don't think you need to take it literally (I think it could be awkward to do a chokuyaku containing 豆...)

It's talking about a person's pride. I believe that you assumed correctly when you guessed that it was about being better to do things for one's self than to rely on others.
"To eat steak from another man's hand" - this is curious in itself, as it implies being hand-fed, like a pet or an animal, and yet it also seems like it could refer to a 'master' being hand-fed by a 'servant' (I thought of Ancient Egyptians or Greeks being hand-fed grapes while being fanned by other servants...)

So to conclude, I think it is saying that it is better to survive -with pride intact - on one's own resources (even if it means surviving by consuming beans that one has already digested, in this case) than to rely on others for things that one cannot be achieved or ascertained without relying on others.

The nuance of the following quote by Emiliano Zapata is slightly difference, but captures the same theme of 'pride,' I think. I hope it might be helpful.

"It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees!" - Emiliano Zapata
 ひざまずいて生きるより、立って死ぬほうがいい! - エミリアーノ・サパタ

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2008-04-11 23:20:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

apologies for typos:
that one cannot -> that cannot
slightly difference -> slightly different

...need...more...coffee...


    Reference: http://www.geocities.jp/gensi/Meigen.html
KathyT
Australia
Local time: 23:47
Native speaker of: English
Grading comment
Thank you very much for your explanation in detail. What I wanted to know most was if my guess, which I myself thought was kind of wild. was really correct or not. And you answered in no unclear manner. Thanks again! and have a good coffee

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  humbird: This is a wild jump from the original message. Obviously that tone is set by the writer, and you should be faithful to it, especially when it is a quote. How disgusting the original message is, you still have to live with it, or better change your job.
16 hrs
  -> Actually, it is *explaining* the original message, which is what Jack-san was asking. I believe he is competent enough to be able to render it appropriately as he sees fit and in accordance with the context of the rest of his document.
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