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vestiging van hypotheek

English translation: raising (or taking out) of a mortgage

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Dutch term or phrase:vestiging van hypotheek
English translation:raising (or taking out) of a mortgage
Entered by: Adrian MM. (X)

15:11 Sep 8, 2015
Dutch to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Real Estate
Dutch term or phrase: vestiging van hypotheek
Context-specific question: does this refer to the establishment of the charge over the relevant property by the lender, or to the creation of the mortgage 'for the benefit of' the borrower? I thought the *former*, but my context is giving me pause, because:

"De zekerheid is te verkrijgen door *vestiging van eerste hypotheek op de woning BIJ [naam geldverstrekker].*"

Dan vraag ik: hoezo "bij"? Waarom niet "door"?

Als er vanuit het perspectief van de bank geschreven wordt, zou je toch denken dat het gaat om hoe zij het hypotheekRECHT kunnen vestigen op het pand in kwestie?
Emma Rault (X)
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:15
raising (or taking out) of a mortgage WITH
Explanation:
Raising is nowt to do with self-raising flour for baking a cake, but arranging a mortgage with the money-lender.

NB 'give a mortage *to* the mortgagee or mortage lender' might be legally accurate whilst, in common UK parlance, customers who claim that 'the bank or building society has given me a mortgage' have, famously, got it the wrong way round. What the bank or building soc. has given them is a mortage loan. I don't know whether UK non-financial journalists understand the difference...

PS whilst creation of a mortgage is an IATE website entry for the term, it doesn't work particularly well with the preposition BIJ that has echoes of the oft-misused German bugbear bei.




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Note added at 3 hrs (2015-09-08 18:48:24 GMT)
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mortage = mortgage

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Note added at 4 hrs (2015-09-08 19:59:38 GMT)
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'..the bank doesn't obtain security by taking out a mortgage with the bank, they obtain security by having the borrower do so.' Yes, exactly. The securuity is obtained by a mortgage taken out by the borrower with the bank. We seem to be going round in circles.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2015-09-08 23:02:05 GMT)
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vestigen: establishing or securing a mortgage is translat(or)ese and doesn't resolve the bij problem. Consolidating a mortage would change the sense to adding toigether several mortages over different properties. Same technique in DE: eine Hypothek bestellen = create or give a mortgage.

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Note added at 15 hrs (2015-09-09 06:18:32 GMT)
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Establishing point: establshment of a mortgage connotes to me tracing or finding out whether there is a mortage over the land. I have never seen that term used in UK conveyancing, except to mean a search or inquiry into land charges.
Collateral point: a red herring. Collateral can be put up for different properties and at different time. It makes no difference to my suggested translations. So I don't see what your problem is.

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Note added at 17 hrs (2015-09-09 08:34:09 GMT)
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Yes. It is still a mortgage/charge over X. I must move on to my own work now....
Selected response from:

Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 15:15
Grading comment
Many thanks, once again, for your elaborate replies in helping me figure out the most accurate translation of this term.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4creation of a mortgage; establishment of a mortgage
Michael Beijer
3raising (or taking out) of a mortgage WITH
Adrian MM. (X)
3register a mortgage (in favour of)
Kitty Brussaard
Summary of reference entries provided
Vestigen van hypotheekrecht
Kitty Brussaard

Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
vestiging van (een) hypotheek
creation of a mortgage; establishment of a mortgage


Explanation:
see e.g. JurLex:

vestiging van een hypotheek =
creation of a mortgage
establishment of a mortgage

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Note added at 16 mins (2015-09-08 15:27:31 GMT)
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vestiging van eerste hypotheek op de woning BIJ [naam geldverstrekker]
=
arrange a mortgage with the lender

Michael Beijer
United Kingdom
Local time: 14:15
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 84
Notes to answerer
Asker: Ja, maar als ze het hebben over "vestiging van *eerste* hypotheek" of "vestiging van *volgende* hypotheek" gaat het toch om het perspectief van de geldverstrekker, of zie ik dat verkeerd? Zie ook het kopje "Zekerheid te verkrijgen door:" Wie krijgt die zekerheid? De geldverstrekker.

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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
vestiging van hypotheek BIJ
raising (or taking out) of a mortgage WITH


Explanation:
Raising is nowt to do with self-raising flour for baking a cake, but arranging a mortgage with the money-lender.

NB 'give a mortage *to* the mortgagee or mortage lender' might be legally accurate whilst, in common UK parlance, customers who claim that 'the bank or building society has given me a mortgage' have, famously, got it the wrong way round. What the bank or building soc. has given them is a mortage loan. I don't know whether UK non-financial journalists understand the difference...

PS whilst creation of a mortgage is an IATE website entry for the term, it doesn't work particularly well with the preposition BIJ that has echoes of the oft-misused German bugbear bei.




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2015-09-08 18:48:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

mortage = mortgage

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2015-09-08 19:59:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

'..the bank doesn't obtain security by taking out a mortgage with the bank, they obtain security by having the borrower do so.' Yes, exactly. The securuity is obtained by a mortgage taken out by the borrower with the bank. We seem to be going round in circles.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs (2015-09-08 23:02:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

vestigen: establishing or securing a mortgage is translat(or)ese and doesn't resolve the bij problem. Consolidating a mortage would change the sense to adding toigether several mortages over different properties. Same technique in DE: eine Hypothek bestellen = create or give a mortgage.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2015-09-09 06:18:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Establishing point: establshment of a mortgage connotes to me tracing or finding out whether there is a mortage over the land. I have never seen that term used in UK conveyancing, except to mean a search or inquiry into land charges.
Collateral point: a red herring. Collateral can be put up for different properties and at different time. It makes no difference to my suggested translations. So I don't see what your problem is.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2015-09-09 08:34:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes. It is still a mortgage/charge over X. I must move on to my own work now....

Example sentence(s):
  • How to raise a mortgage. Introduction. You have decided that you wish to make a purchase or embark on an activity for which you have insufficient cash.

    Reference: http://www.howtolaw.co/raise-a-mortgage-392118
Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 15:15
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 63
Grading comment
Many thanks, once again, for your elaborate replies in helping me figure out the most accurate translation of this term.
Notes to answerer
Asker: But, again, see my earlier comment to Michael: the bank doesn't obtain security by taking out a mortgage with the bank, they obtain security by having the borrower do so. There's a point-of-view issue here, I feel.

Asker: My issue is with "vestigen" (establish), it's the same verb you use in conjunction with the word "recht" (establishing a right). Elsewhere in the text they've talked about "vestiging van hypotheekrecht", in fact. It seems to me "vestigen" emphasises the mortgage *right*/charge over the property held by the mortgage provider. Taking out a mortgage (emphasising the borrower's side of things) = een hypotheek afsluiten.

Asker: Establishing a mortgage = yuck, but "establishment of the first charge over the property by X" could work. . . Sorry if I'm being frustratingly stubborn--you seem to feel it's "vestigen" that is the 'false note' in the source text here rather than the preposition, whereas I think it's the "bij" that's the red herring. But maybe I'm being crazy.

Asker: And, okay, there's another reason I've got a problem here, which is that we're talking about different types of collateral used to secure a loan, but which aren't necessarily the property for which the mortgage loan is being taken out. See, for example, this sentence: "De bank kan voor een financiering zekerheid verkrijgen door vestiging van hypotheek op de volgende vermogensbestanddelen: X, Y en Z"

Asker: But is it still a *mortgage on/charge over X*, if X is not what the loan is being used for but is merely collateral provided to obtain the loan (for the purchase of property Y)?

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4 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
register a mortgage (in favour of)


Explanation:
See also my D-box entry.

De zekerheid is te verkrijgen door vestiging van eerste hypotheek op de woning bij [naam geldverstrekker].

>>

The (required) security is to be obtained by registering a first mortgage on the property in favour of [name of lender].

Or:
(...) by having a first mortgage registered on the property in favour of (...)

The mortgage (the "Mortgage") granted by the Borrower in favour of [lender] (the "Lender") was submitted for registration in the Land Title Office on [month, day, year] under No. [number].
(...)
We confirm that you have requested that we prepare and register a first mortgage (the "Mortgage") in favour of [lender] (the "Lender").
https://www.cle.bc.ca/PracticePoints/REAL/ActingforPrivateLe...

Kitty Brussaard
Netherlands
Local time: 15:15
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 36
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Reference comments


4 days peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Vestigen van hypotheekrecht

Reference information:
Het recht van hypotheek is een zekerheidsrecht op een registergoed, dat gekoppeld is aan een lening, althans een maximaal te lenen bedrag. De eigenaar van het goed kan dit hypotheekrecht vestigen op het goed ten behoeve van een rechtssubject (zoals een bank) die dat als voorwaarde stelt voor het verstrekken van de lening. In zo'n geval spreekt men van een hypothecaire lening. De hypothecaire lening wordt verstrekt en als borgstelling wordt het goed in onderpand gegeven.
https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recht_van_hypotheek

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Note added at 4 dagen (2015-09-12 17:39:05 GMT)
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Veelal bestaat er verwarring over de begrippen die gehanteerd worden bij hypotheken. Zo wordt vaak gesproken over het nemen van een hypotheek, waar een geldlening wordt bedoeld. Juridisch gesproken is het zo dat als u een geldlening neemt, daartegenover het recht van hypotheek “geeft” aan de geldgever. De geldgever op zijn beurt “neemt” het recht van hypotheek vervolgens aan. De
cliënt is derhalve geldnemer en hypotheekgever en degene die het geld verstrekt de geldverstrekker en hypotheeknemer.
http://www.detijdnotariaat.nl/pdf/Informatie_inzake_hypothee...

Kitty Brussaard
Netherlands
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in category: 36

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Michael Beijer: great ref!
3 mins
  -> Thanks, not very hard to find though :-)
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