This site uses cookies.
Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site,
while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used.
For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Dutch to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / early 20th Century Indonesian novel
Dutch term or phrase:Setiken met him, donderen op, ouwe sok, kedokmiter, perèk, lopen jou naden man.
A young man is out of work and meets a man who offers to help him. The young man says he will have to think about it. The older man says, "Zoo, zoo, menir. Das dut mi kenuken. Ik ok kan holan in bice, menir. Seperlop Kod perdom. Setiken met him, donderen op, ouwe sok, kedokmiter, perèk, lopen jou naden man."
This may be a mixture of Dutch, Malay lingua franca and early Indonesian. Any suggestions as to a translation?
Scott, I have just cut and pasted your most recent contribution into my translation. It's gorgeous! About 'faggot': I know it is a terrible word and couldn't/wouldn't be uttered today, but what about 120 years ago, by such low-life as this. Anyway, it is GONE from my translation. No sense stirring up a hornets' nest!
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Or second-and-quart, based on 2nd and 2.5th?
06:58 Mar 22, 2012
So, so, mista. Dat pleez me much. I talka sum Dutch too. Wattajoke! I be goddam! Dam yah hide! Leddim choke! Skiddaddle, ol' fart! Beaddit! Git los'!
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Catherine, what about a two-and-a-halfth go? :-)
05:14 Mar 22, 2012
The pidgin the old man speaks shows the words a coolie not knowing Dutch would pick up from repeated abusive shouting, in the closest he can come to Dutch, using consonants he can produce (P instead of V, etc). He'll only remember/use short abusive swear words in his ranting at the young man. But the old man still 'knows his place': he says 'menir', a version of 'meneer', Dutch for 'sir' or 'boss', and would be used by a coolie who knows just a tad more than his native 'tuan'. 'What a joke' in your second go is an example of a *well-educated* Indonesian fully conversant in Dutch--which the source shows he is not. Think of Kriol 'mista' for 'menir/mister', 'drap ded' for' perek/drop dead', etc. In fact, converting my English version to Kriol should come closer to the old man's level. Then to Eng-US. Do plz. drop 'faggot' for the Eng-US market; Jack might repeat his admonition--without smilie. ;-) But what about translating into Indonesian/Malay, then applying Kriol before going to Eng-US? All the knowledge garnered here is still relevant & highly useful.
Apparently the guy is a well-known loud-mouth and jerk, who talks in pidgin Dutch. So, on second go, I'm looking at using "So, so, boy. That please me very much. I talkee Dutch, too. What a joke! I'll be God damned! Let him choke on his own vomit! The old fart should piss off, the faggot. He can go to hell!"
Jack, since I didn't know what the phrase meant, how was I to suspect it might be offensive? Also, that language is hardly offensive, IMHO, just a bit uncouth. No one seems to have been offended, to my knowledge, certainly not me.
There is no way to share points but unless someone proposes an answer, no one will get any! Why don't you go ahead and put up an answer for that sentence. I may not leave the Dutch text in and may not use footnotes. It is a novel, intended for an English-speaking audience and must above all be readable. It's not important that every word be completely and accurately translated, but rather that the main thrust of the speech is represented in a way that progresses the work in a readable and interesting manner. I am so impressed with the communal contribution that all of you have made and am greatly indebted to all of you, but especially to you for pulling it all together for me. Many, many thanks. Now go for the points!
It’s difficult to say something about your translation. It’s highly difficult to judge without the immediate context. You would of course know better how to put it all together. What I did was summarize the comments from everybody in this discussion. Especially Roy’s and Frank’s insights were instrumental in my understanding of this utterance. Hats off, my dear colleagues! So I think, the points should really be shared. I am not sure how to do it. The honor is completely communal in this case. I should mention, not that it actually makes any difference in your text, but I had omitted Roy’s suggestion that “Kedok” (in “kedokmiter’) is a perversion of “kedhok ("mask")”, and in that case in English it becomes ‘a “lowly mask”. Perhaps it becomes a”boss” in your text? I also wonder… wouldn’t it be better if you left the sentence in Dutch in the body of the text, and inserted your translation as a small footnote? This sentence, it’s quite beautiful and it for sure deserves a reader (in the original).
I've compressed the rather long, drawn-out speech into the following: "So, so, mister. That pleases me immensely. I speak some Dutch, too. God damn that boss of yours! The old fart should drown in his own vomit, the moron!" What do you think?
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Thank you Catherine
05:48 Mar 21, 2012
Thank you for the book info. I *will* keep an eye peeled for it!
Katerina, maybe you would like to post a suggested translation of "Setiken met him, donderen op, ouwe sok, kedokmiter, perèk, lopen jou naden man" so I can award some points!
The book, entitled 'Hikayat Siti Mariah', written in Malay lingua franca, with smatterings of Dutch, and published in serialized form during the period 1910-12, was compiled into a book, with an intro (in Indonesian) by Pramoedya Ananta Toer, in 2003. It is now out of print. There is no Dutch version; it was the first truly indigenous piece of literature written in what is now Indonesia. My translation will be published later this year by Lontar Foundation, Jakarta. Keep an eye out for it on Lontar's website www.lontar.org/
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Two copies plz, Catherine!
02:52 Mar 21, 2012
Sadly enough I don't read Malay/Indonesian, but I'm very much interested in a Dutch copy (if available) and the English one (when in print). Any way you could keep me up to date? Thanks in advance!
“Perek” probably represents “verrek” and that goes for “Go to Hell!” “Drop dead!” or the like. “lopen jou naden man” is unquestionably “Loop naar de maan, jij” and that in English would be (literary) “Go walk to the moon, you!”, or better “Go get lost, man!” “Get away from me, man!”
The following comments are a summary of everything said by everybody in this discussion plus some little of my own thoughts. But just to put it all in English for you:
So, so mister! That pleases me immensely! I speak some Dutch too, mister! Here we go breaking it all up: “Sapperlop” so far has two options. 1. “Sapperdelap” a phrase introduced by Pipo De Clown on Dutch TV and in that case it means “What a joke!” “I am flabbergasted!” ‘Sapperlop” could also be (and that’s more likely) a perversion of “"Sakkerloot (of sapperloot)” and in that case it’s more like “Holy Baptism!”, ‘Holy Mary/Virgin”. “Kod perdom” is unquestionably “God Damned!” “Setiken met him” is anything you like probably out of the series “Let’m choke” “let’m drown in his own…” “Donderen op” is “Get lost!” “Ouwe sok” = old man, old fart “Kedokmiter” = 1. ‘Sodomite’ : “mieter” = a twit, a nothing, a gaynose, and “Kedok” being a region in Indonesia, just the same as a nitwit from Sodom is called a ‘sodomite’. “Kedokmiter” can also be a highly perverted (accent, illiteracy, old language) form of the Dutch idiom “Goede dag, meneer!” and in that case it is approx.. “Hello, Mister!” or :”Have a nice day, mister!” “P
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Taking Roy's translation and Henk's comments
00:41 Mar 21, 2012
So, so, sir. That pleases me. I also know a bit of Dutch, sir. By Jove. G*dd*mn. Let him choke, skedaddle, old goat, beat it, shit, get out of here, you!
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
Catherine, here are my Dutch comments in English
00:19 Mar 21, 2012
[Die oude man is echt niet blij, zachtjes uitgedrukt!] ==> [That old man doesn't seem too happy, to put it mildly!] Niet echt, L.J. Maar het lijkt me ook wat afrikaanse te hebben. 'Sarie Mareis'? ==> Not really, L.J. But it does seem a bit South African. The song 'Sarie Mareis'? Roy, ik trek m'n 'sapper(de)lap' terug; jouw 'sapperloot' is het precies! ==> Roy, I retract my 'sapper(de)lap', your 'sapperloot' is exactly it!
The rest of my Dutch is the translation, at least the few bits Roy didn't get right off inserted in his translation.
Henk, indeed; not a negative mood but the old man sure sounds like he's scolding the young man. 'Up one side and down the other', one might say in the USA.
The novel is the first truly Indonesian work, i.e., written in the lingua franca of the day, for a native, rather than Dutch, audience. I am now in chapter 14 of 20. There has been Dutch in dribs and drabs all through the book but this particular character speaks Dutch more than any of the previous characters. I do not speak Dutch, which is why I need help with these excerpts. For that reason, I can't decipher the discussions above, either. If at all possible, I would appreciate the discussion and answers be in English.
F Scott Ophof (X)
Belize
L.J. & Roy
15:43 Mar 20, 2012
Niet echt, L.J. Maar het lijkt me ook wat afrikaanse te hebben. 'Sarie Mareis'? Roy, ik trek m'n 'sapper(de)lap' terug; jouw 'sapperloot' is het precies!
the use of foul language represtents a negative mood of the speaker. Maybe he only performs the "banding like a Dutchman" attitude. Anyway, I also give "goeiedag met jou" a change as transcription for kedogmiter: go fly a kite!, go jump in the lake!, beat it! Or "goedendag met hem" = he can go to the blazes
Zo, zo, meneer. Dat doet mij genoegen. Ik ken/spreek ook een beetje Hollands, meneer. Sapper(de)lap, GVD. laat hem stikken, donder op, ouwe sok, sodemieter, verrek, loop naar de maan, jij! [Die oude man is echt niet blij, zachtjes uitgedrukt!]
I think perek = verrek! Seems logical. Otherwise (but less porbably) p belongs to kedokmiter, so kedokmiter-p erek = sodemieter op vrek perheps him is not hem, but hen: setiken met hen = let them ...
Zo, zo, meneer. Dat doet mij genoegen. Ik ken Holland ook een beetje, meneer. [Sodemieter op?], GVD. […] met hem, donder op, ouwe sok, […]mieter, [perèk = nu, meteen?] loop naar de maan, jij!
Explanation: "So, so, sir. That me please very much. I talkee the Dutch too, sir: by Jove, damn your hide! Let him choke! Skedaddle, old fart! Beat it! Get lost!' On purpose pidgin-English to retain the double-Dutch flavor and that the old man is not speaking his native language. Same re punctuation. "Sir" is the closest i can come to "tuan", that probably being what the old man would've said in Indonesian. With high respect to Roy vd Heijden for the original work in translating to Dutch.
More food for thought from offline colleague Bessel Dekker re pidginizing: "Let him choking up, getting away, old fart [no you!], bugger, rot in hell, taking you trip to the moon, man!"
F Scott Ophof (X) Belize Local time: 21:37 Native speaker of: Dutch, English PRO pts in category: 4
Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
