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This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Dutch to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Education / Pedagogy / educational terminology
Dutch term or phrase:crebo(nummer)
Dear Colleagues, I need urgent help with this word. It comes in a certificate from MBO, like i.e. here, "de vrije keuze deelkwalificatie crebonummer 51812 Ambachtelijke procesvoering meubelmaken uit crebonummer 10927 Kaderfunctionaris Meubelindustrie en Interieurbouw heeft afgerond." I understand that each subject at school has such a unique number, but what would be a correct term for it in English?
I also hadn't checked who you were before, and now, after your kind criticism, I'm wondering how come you've already asked 323 questions. How could it happen that so many phrases and words you hadn't found in those lots of dictionaries of yours? Strange ...
I've just received the answer to the question from a Dutch teacher (retired, so quite experienced). This is what he's written, "Werkelijk geen idee. Een nare schrijffout misschien? Van credonummer, wat ik ook niet ken trouwens." Iedereen weet ....
I've been guilty of one thing: I've failed to consult afkorting.nl - they have the meaning, so apologies from all that supported me so far. Don't worry, Michael, I won't ask you another question until I have all the dictionaries available for Dutch, English and Hungarian. I'm sure you have them all already.
Let me warn you again that "Non-PRO questions are those that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary" on this site. Not those that can be answered having all the 29 dict's available.
Now, I wish you came from where I come from, making a living for 35 years as a highly competent teacher (of English) on 400 Euros per months, then move to a country where a dictionary costs about 150 Eu, then start learning the language of the country because authorities and schools think nothing of your experience without that new language, learn the language that you haven't spoken for 50 years, then get rejected by everybody because you've never taught English IN the NATIVE language of the country, then try to make a living out of what's left of you by spending a few thousand Euros on all the dictionaries that you've mentioned hoping that one day you'll be asked to translate something about those particular subjects.
By the way, in the city where I live in the Netherlands, those dictionaries weren't available even before the only bookshop worth its mettle threw in the towel. But thanks for your support anyway. It was worth the paper it was written on ...
The reason I think it's a non-Pro question is that it can easily be answered by anyone with either JurLex or Notebook Nederlandse en Vlaamse onderwijstermen in het Engels. They both give:
Centraal Register Beroepsopleidingen (CREBO) = Central Register of Vocational Courses
Therefore, all you have to do as the translator is figure out how you want to write it in your translation.
E.g.:
"CREBO-nummer (Central Register of Vocational Courses, CREBO)" "CREBO number (Central Register of Vocational Courses, CREBO)" "CREBO number", and then put an explanation in brackets, with some variation on or combination of: Centraal Register Beroepsopleidingen, CREBO, Central Register of Vocational Courses.
I didn't check who you were before clicking the non-Pro button. I just assumed that any professional NL>EN translator worth his or her salt would have JurLex, and maybe also the Notebook dictionary (invaluable for education stuff).
You're right that this question doesn't fit the definition of non-pro. However, I do feel that you should have researched it properly, and given Barend the points.
2. a native Dutch teacher doesn't know about the term - in Dutch. 3. Obviously, not everybody can find stuff in so much hits on Google. Interestingly about your answer, all Pro-level answers contain - must contain - references to sources. If I can only ask a question "only after other resources have been exhausted", nobody could ask a question in light of this fact! Interesting, don't you think? Don't you see a contradiction there? I definitely do.
Based on your remarks, however, I feel obliged to close this discussion, which seems to be turning nastily on my head now, without grading. I actually wanted to award points to Barend for the good source (which I happened to not be able to find, perhaps he knows better which part of the same source document to find and where - isn't this the point about asking?), but I need not, I suppose.
The definitons of non-pro in Kudoz Rules 2.7: "Non-PRO questions are those that can be answered by any bilingual person without the aid of a dictionary." I think that terms that I can't even find in a dictionary or web-dictionaries, are Pro Qs, especially if an educated native speaker doesn't know the term. You may not have read that.
This definition also implies that the condition for non-pro is not Google search. 20 years ago, what would you have used for an answer? However, I'd already typed 'crebo' into google, into dictionaries, paper dictionaries, educational government documents available (to me!), and the only useful solution was given by Lingee, which simply gave 'CREBO' in the English translations. Obviously, I had doubts about that, that's why I asked.
You also didn't read some of my remarks. I didn't hit the non-pro button!!! Some others did!!! I'm contesting the non-pro status on the grounds that 1. I'm still not given a translation - not a correct term in E. for CREBO nummer - or shall I put "Central Register of Vocational Courses number" twice into that sentence of which I'd given a half? cont.
If you respect the Kudoz Rules, I will too. Kudoz Rule 2.1 reads "Help" KudoZ should be used for requesting terms help only after other resources have been exhausted. Resources available include the KudoZ archives (KudoZ > ProZ.com Term Search from the main menu), dictionaries, search engines, etc. Since you apparently did not know 'what the letters stand for', all you had to do was type crebo in the google search box. If you had done that, I would not have (had to) hit the non-pro button.
Your question was not (and I quote) 'what the English abbreviation or any kind of short term in translation would be'. Your question was (I quote again) 'what would be a correct term for it in English?'. You were given an answer to that question.
is that I've just asked my Dutch friend about it (MBO educated, then received a High School diploma as a guitar teacher) had absolutely no idea what the word means. So, an educated Dutchman working in education doesn't know it ... still non-pro? For you it could be, but that's not the definition of non-pro here.
You may be right. However, as a relatively recent learner of Dutch, I've always been flabbergasted by the amount of acronyms used in Dutch, which I've always seen capitalized. A sort of answer I'd found, but the Q is still what the English abbreviation or any kind of short term in translation would be. That's still not answered as far as my work is concerned.
You've been handed the answer on a silver platter,
12:46 Nov 16, 2014
in your exact context and it's immediately findable in Dutch, with English translation, on the www. Whether the NL writes it with caps or not doesn't matter. Actually NL uses caps less than English does. The fact the answer is readily available and visible to anyone who looks on the www is probably what has prompted people to vote it non-pro. It's not exactly a mystery term or one that is difficult to find or figure out.
I find it a little bit strange that you've voted this Q as non-pro. As it is, I haven't received a satisfactory answer from the same people as to what crebonummer is in English. I've been given explanations, but as it is a Dutch acronym not spelt as one (acronyms in D are capitalized) and this one was used as a single word which doesn't appear in any available dictionaries, the foreigner can only guess. Transforming the translation into an acronym, we get CRVO, which is "Central Retinal Vein Occlusion", or "Cases with Right Ventricular Overloading" (The Free Dict.). Also, nobody has yet answered if CREBO number would be a valid translation understandable for a Br. audience. So, what do you say? Shall I use "Central Register of Vocational Courses number" in the translation? Then tell me. This is a bit far from non-pro if you haven't even been able to state this, only jeering about 'the Google' and that it's there. No, only and explanation of the full term is in Barend's reference, which is highly valuable, but not a full answer. Please consider this with your votes.
"Centraal Register Beroepsopleidingen (CREBO) = Central Register of Vocational Courses"
(Notebook Nederlandse en Vlaamse onderwijstermen in het Engels)
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
36 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
CREBO (number)
Explanation: Central Register of Vocational Courses (CREBO).
Do you run a new private training institute in the Netherlands? And do you want to be able to award legally recognised diplomas in senior secondary vocational education (MBO) or higher professional education (HBO)? You will need to be registered to do so. An MBO course must be registered in the Central Register of Vocational Courses (CREBO). HBO courses must be listed in the Central Register of Higher Education Study Programmes (CROHO). The Education Consolidation Department (DUO) manages these registers.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 18 hrs (2014-11-16 14:03:47 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Peter, het maakt mij niet uit dat je geen onderzoek hebt gedaan. Mij hoor je er dan ook niet over.
Het is wel zo dat je er heel gemakkelijk achter had kunnen komen waar 'crebo' voor staat: Centraal Register Beroepsopleidingen (CREBO) en het is duidelijk dat je 'crebo' niet even op Google hebt ingetikt, een vertalersreflex.
Als je dat hebt gedaan, moet je de vertaling nog vinden. In mijn geval kwam ik daar achter door een paar combinaties uit te proberen: "vocational training" "central register", etc. En ik had snel beet. Hebbes! :-)
Zoals je ziet wordt het Nederlandse acronym gehandhaafd in de Engelse vertaling en dat is hier ook de juiste oplossing. Het komt heel vaak voor dat de volledige naam wel wordt vertaald maar het acronym gehandhaafd blijft en wat zou de buitenlandse lezer hebben aan "CRVC"? Wat moeten ze daar dan van maken?
Eén simpel voorbeeldje:
Wereldgezondheidsorganisatie = WHO Zo werkt het vaak. Omgekeerd net zo.
De Wereldgezondheidsorganisatie (WHO) organiseert woensdag in Ghana een bijeenkomst met elf landen over de ebola-epidemie, die al meer dan 467 levens heeft geëist.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2014-11-16 14:28:52 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Je ontkomt er dus niet aan om, happily, "CREBO number" te gebruiken. Prima oplossing. Ik heb je gegeven wat je nodig hebt.
Als je wilt dat duidelijk is voor de lezers waar "CREBO" voor staat (hoeven ze niet te weten en als ze het willen weten, zoeken ze het maar op) kun je, één keer in een voetnoot vermelden:
Central Register of Vocational Courses (Centraal Register Beroepsopleidingen (CREBO))
bijvoorbeeld
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2014-11-16 14:36:47 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
This what I explained to you:
.. wat zou de buitenlandse lezer hebben aan "CRVC"? Wat moeten ze daar dan van maken?
"CREBO" means as much or as little to them as "CRVC" does, a literal acronym. But, as tried to explain, using "CVRC" is not according to conventions.
"CREBO" is the only correct option.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2014-11-16 14:53:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Wat ik wel weet is dat 'CREBO number' de vertaling is die je hier moet gebruiken en dat je als dank voor mijn snelle hulp closed the question without grading.
Thank you very much. :-)
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 hrs (2014-11-16 15:09:44 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Peter, it is enough for me that you feel sorry about it.
No bad feelings then.
Let's Call It Quits.
In capitals. :-)
Also: LCIQ
:-)
Barend van Zadelhoff Netherlands Local time: 10:47 Specializes in field Native speaker of: Dutch PRO pts in category: 38
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you very much, Barend! (I couldn't find such a page in English though I suspected the capitalized answer not knowing what the letters stand for)
Asker: Dear Barend,
Perhaps I haven't been careful enough about my search, but as you can see from my remarks, I've done search. As to CRVC, please find the meanings in The Free Dictionary, perhaps the best source for acronyms, but what it gives is not suitable in this case.
Asker: Dat klopt, Barend, ik heb beide gedaan, natuurlijk. En ik waardeer heel veel dat je zonder gedoe een snel versterking voor mij gevoelens gaf - gaf me wat ik nodig had. Spoed was ook belangrijk. Het spijt me dat andere mensen zo'n zuur maakte en het 'non-pro' wilden maken. Met vriendelijke groet, Peter
Asker: Nog een punt, Barend. Ik had in de Hongaarse onderwijsstelsel gewerkt als leraar in middelbare scholen, toch weet ik niet wat de juiste Hongaarse woord voor CREBO nummer zou zijn. Iedereen weet dat, zeggen ze hieronder ...
Asker: Sorry, Barend, that happened right after Sindy sent her negative remarks and I thought, well, if they insist that this is non-pro, then let's get over with it and without points. I later started to see that you deserve points for it, and now I don't know how to change my decision into points. Do you know how I could do that? I can't find a way.
Asker: Thank you, Barend, for your kind words. The last thing I wanted was to make you upset. If no bad feelings, then huge thanks!
Reference comments
2 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Juridisch-Economisch Lexicon
Reference information: Centraal Register Beroepsopleidingen (CREBO) = Central Register of Vocational Courses
Michael Beijer United Kingdom Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 64
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peer agreement (net): +2
