授決經

05:59 Oct 3, 2011 

So "Vyākarana" already means "授記經," there is no necessity to add "sutra" to emphasize "經" this word? (wouldn't it be another translation issue? -- It depends on how the translator preceives these terms? From sanskrit to Chinese, the translator translated it according to the target language custom, but when we think of it back from Chinese to sanskrit, the translator might be conditioned by the Chinese custom and think he/she should add the translation of "經"? Otherwise, why does the google book show the information of "Buddha-bhashita Ajatasatru-raja-vayakarana-sutra?)
I also found a definition: "Vyakarana Sutra" is sutra of grammar (http://www.indianetzone.com/38/ancient_indian_literature.htm... I've asked someone who has religion translation experience regarding this word "Vyakarana." He told me that vyakarana can refer to something about grammar too (for example:旃陀羅文法論經》(Candra-vyakarana-sutra/Candra-vyakarana ) ).

16:05 Oct 1, 2011 

.... Perhaps, a new category will be added for the canonical demands.

FYI, the displayed page for "Vyakarana Sutra" in Google search include :
53 Candra-vyakarana-sutra; Stri- Vivarta-Vyakarana-Sutra; Panini-Vyakarana Sutras; the Maitreya-vyakarana- sutra; Sarasvati Vyakarana Sutra....
(I think you are right. I haven't seen "Gatha Sutra" yet. )

15:57 Oct 1, 2011 

Here's some more information for your reference:

The first nine are listed in all surviving agamas, with the other three added in some later sources. In Theravada, at least, they are regarded as a classification of the whole of the scriptures, not just suttas. The scheme is also found in Mahayana texts. However, some time later a new organizational scheme was imposed on the canon, which is now the most familiar. The scheme organises the suttas into.... ("Buddhist Texts", Wikipedia)

I remember when I first learned the 12 "discourses," the author took the trouble to briefly explain the general meaning of "sutra" in order to introduce the classification. I guess, the reason is exactly why we are here talking about. The intrinsic confusion in it is because of the different ways of perceiving and organizing things in different ages. As a matter of fact, this kind of Foucaultian "order-of-things" disparity, in our case, involves so many generations of classification efforts. I'm wondering many generations later, how will people in the future classifies those sermons, speeches, or even internet posted writings that the distinguished religious leaders in our time has made. Perhaps, ...

15:19 Oct 1, 2011 

I'm open to explanations.

14:31 Oct 1, 2011 

I think you are on the wrong track.

14:29 Oct 1, 2011 

ChefZ, "Vyakarana Sutra" is a category. I think if you search it on internet, you'll find a lot even beyond our common knowledge of of it.

Another point is that the 12 category wasn't as systematic a classification system as modern bibliographical system. Modern systematic classification system originated in Greece (Aristotle) long after Mahakashyapa's rallies for sutra compilations. Therefore, you can find that from the second on to the twelve, most of the names do not refer to the form but to the nature of contents.

Gatha is a form.

12:49 Oct 1, 2011 

《三藏》(大藏) 是「一切經」的總名，包括所有「十二部經」。「十二部」不是指經文的篇章，而是指依不同體裁和內容，分成的十二種類的「一切經」，故亦稱為「十二分教」。據〈大智度論〉載，「十二部經」包括：
一，「修多羅」(Sūtra)，即「契經」，指長行直說的經。「Sūtra」原意是花串，印度人喜歡把一朵朵美麗的香花用線串起來成花環(好像夏威夷花環那樣)，用以獻給神，獻給尊敬的長者或心愛的人，所以花串是尊敬和愛的表示。而佛所說的法，集結成一篇篇文獻，後人就稱為「修多羅」，就是我們所稱的「經」。
二，「祗夜」(Geya)，即「重頌」或「應頌」，是佛對以前說過的經文，再重復說其義。
三，「伽陀」，「偈他」(Gāthā)，指偈頌，漢譯為「偈」，原為良藥名，在此指「諷頌」、「孤起誦」，就是以「偈」的方法，諷詠佛法妙義，詠頌三寶功德。「偈」是佛教的一種韻文文體，似詩，似頌，每句從四言至三十二言不等，(言是字)一般是四句一偈，故通常亦稱「四句偈」。偈頌是聖者的智慧，或是行者自性所悟，一般雖以四句詩的形式，但較自由，並非一定講究平仄韵律。
四，「尼陀那」(Nidāna)，亦稱「緣起經」，通常指經文的「序」品。
五，「伊帝目多」(Itivrittaka)，或譯稱「伊帝目多伽」，即「本事經」，佛所說弟子、菩薩、聲聞等過去世的事。
六，「闍多伽」(Jātaka)，即「本生經」，佛所說自身過去世為菩薩身時所行之事。「本生」亦譯成「本起」、「本緣」。
七，「阿浮達摩」(Adbhutadharma)，或稱「阿浮陀達摩」，指「未曾有希法」，說佛菩薩神變希有事跡之經。
八，「阿波陀那」(Avadāna)，即「譬喻經」，「喩」同「喻」，是譬喩、比喩、曉喩，用一事物、故事來比方、譬喩解說佛法教理的經文。
九，「優婆提舍」(Upadesha)，即「論議」，是佛與弟子互相問答論議的經。
十，「優陀那」(Udāna)，指無人發問而佛陀自宣說的經。
十一，「毗佛略」(Vaipulya)，即「方廣經」，方正廣大的經典，如小乘的《長阿含經》，大乘的《華嚴經》《法華經》等。
十二，「和伽羅」，Vyākarana「維和伽羅那」，即「授記經」。是佛對發心至位階不退的弟子，預言其將來何時何地必當成佛的「記別」。佛對其弟子的一切修行歷程瞭若指掌，授記不是猜測，而是很肯定的預告。

如果 Vyākarana 可以和 Sutra 一起用，那 「偈」Gāthā 就成了 Gāthā Sutra，漢譯就成了 「偈經」。

06:05 Oct 1, 2011 

Hi, thanks for the message.
For the "Ajatasatru Sutra," cf.
http://books.google.com/books?id=ikPxIBFOz-sC&pg=PA114&dq=Aj...

As for "Vyakarana Sutra," it is somewhat a general term as a sutra category. There are Meitreya(弥勒佛) Vyakarana Sutra , Amitabha Vyakarana Sutra, and so on.

05:18 Sep 30, 2011 

sorry, a typo, should to "grant."

05:16 Sep 30, 2011 

Thank you for the explanation. I will be happy to grand the points to Chefz. But I think I will adopt the translation from googlebook as a formal version. Is it possible to find out where the translation of "Vyākaraṇa Sutra" and "Ajatasatru Sutra" are from?

11:22 Sep 28, 2011 

By the way, I suggest using the title in the formal way. "Ajatasatru Sutra" is convenient, but I would use it after its formal/full title has been introduced.
And I agree with you in that "vyākaraṇa" is the keyword.
I've seen "Ajatasatru Sutra" used as a informal name for convenience, but "Vyākaraṇa Sutra" as a formal short form.

10:22 Sep 28, 2011 

Dear Colleague: Thanks for your message and for your advanced explanations. I'm happy to learn more about the information. It's the repay I get from this. I think the credits belong to ChefZ. He's the one who finds the most keywords. Wish you the best in your project.

And Thanks for GY Ren's support.

08:18 Sep 28, 2011 

To Chefz, thanks for the info. To jarv95888, the link you provide is very helpful. I checked an online dictionary, rāja means king. So the version on googlebook is like the Chinese version. Would you change your comment to an answer so I can grand you credit?// I think "vyākarana" is a key word here, so it has to be shown in the translation. King Ajatasatru was described in different sutras, if it is just translated as "Ajatasatru Sutra," wouldn't it cause readers' confusion? //
Also, here are some definitions of vyākaraṇa
1. Explanation, elucidation, or analysis, particularly with reference to points of doctrine.
2. The science of grammar.
3. A prediction or prophecy, used especially in Mahāyāna sūtras with reference to the prediction given by a Buddha to a Bodhisattva who has just embarked on the path. The prediction often details the Bodhisattva's future deeds, his achievement of enlightenment (bodhi) and his eventual name as a Buddha.