went and gone

English translation: see my explanation

04:26 Feb 22, 2005

English language (monolingual) [Non-PRO]
General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters

English term or phrase: went and gone

My chat-mate usually says, "I've went to the city center", but, should this be "I've gone to the city center"? He is a native speaker of English, so I wonder if there is any difference between went and gone?

Xiaolin

Selected answer:see my explanation

Explanation:
although strickly speaking, the correct usage would be 'I've gone', in everyday speech people around me including myself do tend to say 'I've went'. this is probably a regional thing. (I live just outside of Glasgow).

so to answer your question, strictly speaking it 'should' be 'I've gone', but if there is a difference it would be that your chat-mate is speaking to you in a way that is most natural to himself rather than trying to be 'correct'.

hope this helps...

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Note added at 5 mins (2005-02-22 04:31:52 GMT)
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now I am re-reading your question and notice that your chat-mate writes \'city center\' - is he American? if so, I\'d be very interested to know if they say \'I\'ve went\' over there in America as well...? I say this because we would have written \'city centre\' obviously...

Selected response from:

tappi_k
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:13

Grading comment

Thank you everybody, but I was not asking a grammatical question, but a cultural question (what was behind the expression 'I've went' because I KNEW it wasn't standard English). tappitikarrassk's answer and others' comments to her helped me most. But I want to thank everybody!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

5 +7

see my explanation

tappi_k

5 +2

This is not an answer

James Calder

5 +1

The correct form is " I have gone to the city...".

Carmen Schultz

I went to the city centre

CMJ_Trans (X)

"I had been" ...

Craft.Content

went

Maria Chmelarova

Discussion entries: 1

Answers

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

see my explanation

tappi_k
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:13
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Japanese,

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

RHELLER: may be correct for your region - not acceptable in the U.S. (I went or I have gone)

2 mins

-> thanks Rita. Scots language is quite a particular thing - our parliament website in Scots for instance, most speakers of English would find it outrageous I'd imagine...

agree

David Hollywood: this is a good explanation, I'm Irish and we also say "I have went" but it goes against all granmmatical logic and is a dialectic usage (breaks my heart to hear it but it's used ) so ...

8 mins

-> thanks, David. personally speaking, I do cherish this kind of dialectic usage that feels close and personal and tend not to think it wrong, but you're right, it is against all grammatical logic!

agree

Refugio: you would probably not hear that in the US...went is a past tense and gone is a participle

34 mins

-> thanks, Ruth, and of course your clarification is correct and appreciated!

agree

Narasimhan Raghavan

38 mins

-> thanks!

agree

James Calder: They tend to say "I've went", "he's went" etc. in the North East of England too, at least I've heard Alan Shearer use "went" instead of "gone" plenty of times. Can't think of anywhere else in England where they do this.

2 hrs

-> cheers, James. it is quite interesting how the way people speak in the North of England is similar to the way people speak in Scotland.

agree

Saleh Chowdhury, Ph.D.

5 hrs

agree

Kevin Kelly: "I've went" is unfortunately used in the United States, and every time I hear it I cringe. It is simply not proper English.

7 hrs

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

The correct form is " I have gone to the city...".

Explanation:
In proper English, the difference between went and gone is that "I've gone is correct" when using the auxiliary verb "have" (I have + main verb), thus I have gone.

To go is an irregular verb and the forms of the verb to go are as follows:
to go (infinitive), gone (as in I have gone)and went, which are to be used with the appropriate persons (whether 1st person singular, second person, third person, etc.)

Carmen Schultz
Local time: 16:13
Native speaker of:

Spanish,

English
PRO pts in category: 4

3 hrs confidence:

I went to the city centre

Explanation:
The other two options are not correct/logical.
I've went is INCORRECT English. It may be a regionalism but it is not received English (so there can be no misundertanding!).
"I've gone to the city centre" is when you leave a note a home to tell people not there when you leave where you have gone. If a person is writing and saying that today they were in the city centre, then the correct English would be "I WENT TO the city centre"

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Note added at 2005-02-22 08:02:13 (GMT)
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Oops - I should have said .... that today he or she was in the city centre....

That is another example (they were) of English as it is spoken even though technically it is incorrect !

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Note added at 2005-02-22 12:27:25 (GMT)
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Note to James: Before you let foreigners loose on regionalisms, you might like to be sure that they understand correct grammar. I see no point in confusing them. It is clear that the question was put by someone who had been taught one thing and was now encountering another. I think it is important in such cases to tell people what \"correct\" English is, even if it means explaining then that no-one actually speaks proper English any more (more\'s the pity!).
As to defending bad speech of this type, words fail me! Apart from anything else on those rare occasions when I\'ve been in Scotland I couldn\'t even talk to the people in the pubs. I didn\'t understand a single word they were saying.

My final point is that NEITHER we\'ve went NOR we\'ve gone is correct in received English in the example. As I said before, it would be WE WENT.

Sorry if I seem to be a dinosaur but English is slipping fast as it is without giving it a further push downhill!

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Note added at 2005-02-22 13:10:15 (GMT)
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Well, a lot of people seem to be having fun with this one but, in the end, the asker is the loser. He may be reassured that a few people still speak received/standard English and he will always be able to communicate without picking up regionalisms - of which there are many and which differ widely from region to region....

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Note added at 2005-02-22 13:37:36 (GMT)
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IMO asker does not need to worry about regionalisms other than to know that people use them but that they are not received English. It must be tough enough to learn the language without having to steer a way through this sort of thing

CMJ_Trans (X)
Local time: 23:13
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 32

4 hrs confidence:

"I had been" ...

Explanation:
Depending on the context, this is another possibility ->

"I had been to the city center".

Yet another could be -
"I had gone to the city center."

This would be appropriate when the friend is responding to a query about his whereabouts at a particular point in time.

Craft.Content
Local time: 02:43
Native speaker of:

Hindi

10 hrs confidence:

went

Explanation:
in English, and it was British E. first, which I was exposed as to another l. in my life, in text book by Alexander is always
" went" :
we went to the Town Hall...
last week I went to the theatre...
last summer, I went to Italy...
I went to into his office...

went is past tense of go
gone is past particilpe of go (or in sence of - absent, dead, lost, no more...)
" Gone With The Wind", but I am not a linguist either, I just felt, I might express my opinion. Thanks.

Maria Chmelarova
Local time: 17:13
Native speaker of: Slovak

4 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

This is not an answer

Explanation:
This is just to clarify things for the asker.

"I've went" is not necessarily incorrect/illogical. It all depends on who the speaker is. If my wife said it (a non-native speaker) I would correct her, but I certainly wouldn't correct a Glaswegian or a Geordie (native of Newcastle) if they said it - I'd probably get a bop on the nose for my troubles, and rightly so. Just because it's not the Queen's English doesn't meant to say it's incorrect. UK English is full of regional variations such as this and Spanish, for example, is no different.

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Note added at 5 hrs 13 mins (2005-02-22 09:39:24 GMT)
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Note for CMJ

This is not a question of grammatical rules - it\'s what native speakers of English in certain parts of the UK actually say. Of course, you wouldn\'t say to a non-native speaker that this is correct but in Glasgow, Newcastle, Dundee, Belfast etc. people say \"I\'ve went\" to mean \"I\'ve gone\". Are you saying they don\'t speak properly? Perhaps they don\'t if you look at it in terms of received English but it\'s certainly valid. In Leicestershire (where I\'m from) they say \"I\'m going up town\". It\'s not grammatically correct either but that doesn\'t mean to say it\'s not valid or logical.
Another thing; why shouldn\'t foreign students of English (particularly at advanced levels) learn regionalisms? Shouldn\'t they be able to assimilate them as we do and recognise them as variations rather than dismiss them as examples of poor English? If we all spoke the same way (and with the Eastenders-inspired advance of the dreaded Estuary English it\'s a distinct possibility), wouldn\'t English become dreadfully boring. It\'s regional variations such as these that help keep languages alive and vital.
I challenge you to walk into a pub in the East End of Glasgow and tell the people there that their English is appalling.

Regards

James

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Note added at 8 hrs 38 mins (2005-02-22 13:04:31 GMT)
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CMJ,

I strongly believe in good grammar as well. Of course it should be \"I went\". I don\'t say \"I\'ve went\" either, but had I been brought up in the North East, Scotland or Northern Ireland I may well have done. I think we need to make a distinction here between bad grammar and a widely accepted regional variation (which I think this is). If you researched the usage of this construction in these areas you\'d probably find that it goes back quite a long time, hence its widespread use there. By the way, the next time you find yourself in in a pub north of the border give me a call and I\'ll interpret for you.

Regards

James

Note for the asker:

Here are some references of the usage of \"I\'ve went\" (meaning \"I\'ve gone\", \"I\'ve been\" or \"I went) in the North East of England, Glasgow and Northern Ireland:

This is The North East | Sport | Football | Darlington FC
... games. \"They hardly created anything, but in that time where I\'ve went
off they\'ve went and scored a couple,\" said Liddle. \"It\'s ...
www.thisisdarlington.co.uk/the_north_east/ sport/football/darlington/news/070403.html

BBC - Tyne - Features - What do you think of the Sage Gateshead?
... funding for such developments exists!A regional world class ... adding another facet
to a superb North East Jewel ... Neil Atkinson I\'ve went to the open day events and ...
www.bbc.co.uk/tyne/content/articles/ 2004/12/13/sage_gateshead_have_your_say_feature.shtml

BBC News | SCOTLAND | Heartbreak Hotel: transcript
... ROSS MCWILLIAM: The homeless in Glasgow aren\'t just being let down by The Bellgrove. ...
I mean I, me personally I\'ve went down to the staff and I\'ve said, in ...
news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/ uk/scotland/newsid_975000/975441.stm

Your Place And Mine - Topics - Sport - 82 World Cup - Live Chat
... therumpokid: Apart from THE goal, what was the best Northern Ireland goal you ever
saw? ... Gerry: I\'ve went to the last couple of world cups but this year I\'ve ...
www.bbc.co.uk/northernireland/ yourplaceandmine/topics/sport/A733781.shtml

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Note added at 9 hrs 39 mins (2005-02-22 14:05:39 GMT)
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CMJ,

All learners of languages have to address regionalisms. I live in Galicia in northwestern Spain where half the people also speak Galician in thick accents. In neighbouring Asturias they speak a local language called \"bable\" and use the present perfect when the rest of Spain uses the past tense (or is it the other way round? I can\'t remember). The point is, regional variations exist and are a fact of learning any language. Why should people in La Coruña speak the same way as people in Madrid, or Geordies the same as Cockneys?

I also fail to see why the asker is the loser. Several informative answers have been posted. The first one explains things very clearly and I have added this answer merely as clarification. I think he/she\'s probably been quite surprised by the response to seemingly fairly straightforward question.

James

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Note added at 1 day 6 hrs 3 mins (2005-02-23 10:30:00 GMT) Post-grading
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My pleasure, Xiaolin. It was a very interesting question/debate.

Regards

James

James Calder
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:13
Native speaker of: English

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