That one not even the devil would tell!

English translation: You don't say!

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
English term or phrase:That one not even the devil would tell!
Selected answer:You don't say!
Entered by: Paula Vaz-Carreiro

22:23 Nov 18, 2004
English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Art/Literary - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings
English term or phrase: That one not even the devil would tell!
This is the (more or less) direct translation of a Portuguese expression. It is used when the speaker has been told something preposterous. Can anyone think of an equivalent expression in English? I have been thinking about it for half a day and come up with nothing satisfactory. Thanks.
Paula Vaz-Carreiro
Devil only knows what you are telling me
Explanation:
This is how I woould translate it, probably, although I am not using a specific English idiom.

I don't insist, of course. It just seems that, somehow, the word "Devil" must be preserved:)

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Note added at 1 day 10 hrs 6 mins (2004-11-20 08:30:02 GMT)
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Given the context kindly provided by the asker, this is what actually might do just fine:

You don\'t say, you good old S.O.B.

(pardon the vernacular)

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Note added at 2 days 18 hrs 4 mins (2004-11-21 16:27:59 GMT)
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To Dusty: your inital response to my answer, in which you juxtapose the \"native ears\" with the non-native ears is what propelled this entire debate into a space where it should have never been in the first place; oftentimes we are unaware of our own role in the course of events. This is not to perpetuate the argument, but rather to learn from it.
Selected response from:

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 07:38
Grading comment
Choosing an answer was very difficult because so many where really good. After much debating, I feel that “You don’t say!” is the best one for my scene, even without the word ‘devil’. It has the same ‘flavour’ as the Pt expression - thanks Montefiore.
Thanks also to all the many people who tried to help.
Once again I apologise for not having had the forethought to provide a lot more information at the outset – I won’t do it again, I promise.


4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED
4 +5pull the other one (o. leg), (it's got bells on it)
Cilian O'Tuama
5 +3The Devil, you say!
NancyLynn
4 +3You've got to be kidding (me)!
Mikhail Kropotov
4 +3a cock-and-bull story
Cilian O'Tuama
5That's a tall tale!
Ltemes
4 +1Bull shit! Horse shit!
humbird
5that's the tallest story fed (to humans/someone)
Calliope Sofianopoulos (X)
3 +2Some ideas (which may or may not be suitable for 1922)
chica nueva
3 +1it's a real fish story
David Russi
3 +1That's devilishly hard to swallow, old chap!
Tony M
4I'll believe that when pigs fly!
Refugio
4 -1A shaggy dog story
Neil Phillipson
4 -1Devil only knows what you are telling me
Montefiore


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
that one not even the devil would tell!
You've got to be kidding (me)!


Explanation:
The meaning of this expression is roughly equal to the one you are talking about. Other details: 1. It is very common; 2. It is colloquial if not slang; and 2. Maybe it is not quite as strong as you want.

Mikhail Kropotov
Germany
Local time: 15:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: Russian
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tehani
1 hr
  -> thank you!

neutral  Tony M: Sounds too American and modern to necessarily be suitable for Asker's context (country?)
1 day 9 hrs
  -> Perhaps it does. My answer came in before the added note.

agree  Montefiore: it's a milder version of what's being said
2 days 7 hrs
  -> As explained above in 2. (which should have been a 3.) Thanks!

agree  Refugio: As for modern, the verb "to kid" meaning "to treat like a child" goes back at least to the early nineteenth century, according to the Dictionary of Slang. Maybe in question form: "Are you kidding me?"
2 days 17 hrs
  -> Thank you. If I remember correctly, Americans often express feelings of disbelief using either the question form or the statement form.
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
that one not even the devil would tell!
it's a real fish story


Explanation:
May not be exactly what you are looking for, this usually implies that the story was greatly exaggerated (the fish the fisherman describes is always bigger than the one he/she really caught).

David Russi
United States
Local time: 08:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Montefiore: this might work, too:)
2 days 7 hrs
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25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
that one not even the devil would tell!
That's a tall tale!


Explanation:
Definition of tall tale: an improbable (unusual or incredible or fanciful) story

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Note added at 27 mins (2004-11-18 22:51:10 GMT)
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More on tall tales:

tall tale -- An anecdotal exaggeration, a \"windie.\" The folk form is
common worldwide, although it flourished particularly in the American
nineteenth century, as settlers added inventions of their own humorous
design to the already daunting hazards of frontier life.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 31 mins (2004-11-18 22:54:38 GMT)
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The \"American Heritage Dictionary of Idioms\" defines \"tall tale\" as:
tall tale

A fanciful or greatly exaggerated story, as in \"Some youngsters love tall tales about creatures from outer space coming to earth\". This idiom uses \'tall\' in the sense of \"exaggerated.\" [Mid-1800s]


Ltemes
United States
Local time: 07:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Montefiore: this is a good one
8 hrs
  -> Thanks! It's used all the time here in the U.S.

disagree  Tony M: Meaning OK, but not very idiomatic to my native ears; sounds quaint and old-fashioned, mainly because 'tale' is a very dated word // Yes, I'm BE; not question of 'authority' simply observation! // Tall tale on its own is OK; just the expression sounds odd
22 hrs
  -> Interesting. It's certainly idiomatic to MY native U.S. ears. Perhaps you're from another English-speaking country. Nothing quaint about this. I hear it all the time. And who has the authority to say whether or not a word is 'dated'?
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41 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
that one not even the devil would tell!
Bull shit! Horse shit!


Explanation:
American slang you hear everywhere everyday. Expression used is for belittling and pejorative, even offensive. I am not sure whether you're looking for this degree of denial as it is quite strong. But being used for so often, under certain context it may not be so bad any more.

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  NancyLynn: horse hockey! ;-) depending on the rest of the conversation, and the characters in question, this might be the shortest route to the best answer
2 days 13 hrs
  -> Thank you Nancy!
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
that one not even the devil would tell!
pull the other one (o. leg), (it's got bells on it)


Explanation:
if you think someone is trying to fool you into believing something...

Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Local time: 15:38
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Montefiore: this is hilarious, I much prefer this version! I also find it remarkable that you chose to eschew the non-native postive comments while responding to Dusty's; no native bias here, to be sure:)
7 hrs
  -> The added context (1922) was what did it, nothing else. BTW, most of the time I don't reply, especially to agrees.

agree  Aisha Maniar: I like both your answers!
9 hrs

agree  Tony M: Yes, this is definitely the winner in my book! "You don't expect me to believe that, do you?" // Then this is PERFECT, as I'm sure it was in use long ago, and is ideal for conversation between 2 men...
21 hrs
  -> Thanks, Dusty, but now we gotta go back through the time warp to 1922

agree  NancyLynn
2 days 12 hrs

agree  Refugio
2 days 15 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
that one not even the devil would tell!
A shaggy dog story


Explanation:
A tall story is nice, meaning something fabricated or made, the kind of story a friend might tell another as a joke. Even if a story were told in the company of friends, disbelief could be expressed by saying, "That's a shaggy dog story or that's a tall story!".

Of course, if we wanted to deride our own language and talk in expletives, we might say, "Bullshit, horseshit, b*llocks" and any other manner of swearing I usually hear in the pub on a Friday night. That's not to say I don't mind it, just that there are alternatives depending on the context...

I think 'a shaggy dog story' suits this expression nicely. I hope it helps,
Neil.

Neil Phillipson
Local time: 21:38
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Aisha Maniar: this is also a possibility
9 hrs
  -> Thanks, Aisha

disagree  Tony M: Sorry Neil, but I think 'shaggy dog' means specifically a long-winded story that has a weak or unfunny ending...
1 day 8 hrs

disagree  Refugio: Dusty is right on the definition of shaggy dog story. "Not that shaggy!"
2 days 15 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
that one not even the devil would tell!
a cock-and-bull story


Explanation:
Merriam-Webster says: an incredible story told as true

Cilian O'Tuama
Germany
Local time: 15:38
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  sarahl (X)
1 hr

agree  Giulia Barontini
1 hr

agree  Aisha Maniar: :-)
9 hrs

neutral  Tony M: Fair enough, but difficult to work into a suitable ejaculation
20 hrs
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1 day 10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
that one not even the devil would tell!
That's devilishly hard to swallow, old chap!


Explanation:
Well, if you're looking for an old-fashioned expression that includes the Devil, try this! It just could be appropriate, particularly if these were English chaps talking (though I doubt they are!)

What you don't say is whether the sense is "Do you really expect me to believe that?" or "I don't believe you, you're talking rubbish" --- I think it will make quite a difference to what expression works. However, I feel very strongly that Cilian's "pull the other one!" is exactly in the right register for you here, and has a sufficiently dated air to work for 1922 as well (my Dad, from that era, used it a lot!)

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Note added at 1 day 11 hrs 13 mins (2004-11-20 09:37:02 GMT)
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I appreciate your input Monte, though I don\'t know why you sound quite so \'bristly\' about it.

I certainly made no claim to be authoritative; indeed, I hope the tone of my suggestion was very \'throw-away\', intended as \'just another idea into the melting pot\' --- in this case, I was trying to work in the \'Devil\' bit as Asker had requested, and I acknowledge that back in 1922, the word \'Devil\' would have been more likely to crop up than today (odd, that, isn\'t it?) Indeed, my own suggestion is nothing more than \"another version\" --- did anyone ever say the contrary? Certainly not me!

As for interpreting the Portuguese, of course I know nothing (not that Asker has given us the original language text anyway!) --- so I am relying entirely (as I presume many other answerers are) on Asker\'s own explanation of the text, which I believe I have interpreted correctly --- whilst acknowledging at least 2 of the possible nuances of meaning that I can spot.

You are of course entirely entitled to hold your own view, but to do so, you don\'t need to be quite so hard on poor, harmless old Dusty -- \'else I\'ll cry :-)))

Tony M
France
Local time: 15:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 44

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Montefiore: that's not exactly what's being said here; and, Dusty, although you are a native English speaker, you are not a native Portuguese speaker, so yours is just another version, and not an authoritative one; in my view, it is not close enough to the original
12 mins
  -> Thanks, Monte! Please see my added note above for a longer response...

agree  Refugio: In the US nowadays we would probably just say, "Yeah, right!"
9 hrs

agree  NancyLynn: yeah, right! is also commonly heard today, but I love your devilishly well constructed phrase, which seems perfect for the period
1 day 4 hrs
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1 day 19 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
that one not even the devil would tell!
I'll believe that when pigs fly!


Explanation:
Another colloquial expression.

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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 5 mins (2004-11-20 18:28:28 GMT)
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Did you think I was born yesterday? (very twenties)

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Note added at 1 day 20 hrs 11 mins (2004-11-20 18:34:42 GMT)
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Did you think I was born yesterday? (very twenties)

Refugio
Local time: 07:38
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Montefiore: there are many colloquial expressions, but the fact that they are colloguial doesn't yet qualify them as suitable for the given context
12 hrs
  -> Is this another common expression that you haven't yet heard?

agree  NancyLynn: d'you think I was born y.? I wasn't born y,. you know
18 hrs
  -> Thanks, Nancy
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
that one not even the devil would tell!
that's the tallest story fed (to humans/someone)


Explanation:
It sounds like your portugese expression is a very strong and exaggerated one, so I would suggest an exaggerated version of "a tall story".

I place the qualifier in the last sentence because the biggest trick, or illusion, or the tallest story fed to the human is the one of ancestry and pedigree.
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/mag/2002/11/24/stories/2002112...


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Note added at 4 hrs 43 mins (2004-11-19 03:07:22 GMT)
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Also...
The Tallest Tale told this month, has to be Elizabeth Kate\'s...
http://callahans.50megs.com/barrags/0005rag.html


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Note added at 2 days 4 hrs 56 mins (2004-11-21 03:19:44 GMT)
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In reply to Ruth\'s comment:
1) When I replied, there was no note specifying contradiction between two parties, banking, anarchy, or anything/anybody else, and 2) I can\'t vouch for the writer\'s language background, but I am a native speaker of English, and I don\'t see anything wrong with \"feeding sb lies/tales\" as a phrase. I quite like it.

Calliope Sofianopoulos (X)
Australia
Local time: 01:38
Native speaker of: Native in GreekGreek, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Montefiore
4 hrs
  -> :-) thanks

disagree  Refugio: To say that there is no contradiction between banking and anarchy is not exactly "a tall story", which would mean an exaggeration, and "fed (to the human)" is clearly not written by a native English speaker.
1 day 15 hrs
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2 days 14 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
that one not even the devil would tell!
The Devil, you say!


Explanation:
Having read all the offerings, and having the advantage of stepping in late ;-) this expression occurred to me. It's old, it sticks to the original <devil> expression, and just might work for the asker...

The difficulty with the Eng mono section is this: the asker deliberately did not go for pt-eng in order to avoid non-idiomatic expressions from non-native Eng speakers.

I do not wish to engage in a debate on netiquette or pc behaviour: the scope of this linguistic research, by its very nature, transcends pc. The *important* thing is for the translation to be natural. The ultimate goal is to present an accurate, excellent translation.

Sometimes these waters are deeper than they first appear. I thank everyone who takes the time to help others; but please be sure to stick to linguistic comments, not personal ones, and keep in mind that this is a professional venue, and the asker has a professional interest vested in the question. Personal feelings cannot be taken into consideration.

Now I am going to agree with Dusty and Cilian, as both their answers are idiomatic and could potentially assist the asker in making her selection for the text she is translating. I hope she is able to untangle it all!

NancyLynn
Canada
Local time: 10:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Refugio: This is a good one, but isn't the comma usually omitted?
3 hrs
  -> you're right!

agree  Montefiore: couldn't agree more with everything you say, and the translation version choices are made according to the individual preferences of the Asker; after all, people forget that the Asker is the one who is the "judge" here, and our task is to help him/her
3 hrs
  -> exactly! thanks

agree  Tony M: Brilliantly said, Nancy! I agree with your suggestion, and especially, with your comments! A nice, warm, glowing feeling just came all over me --- and it's not even Christmas yet :-)
22 hrs
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
that one not even the devil would tell!
Devil only knows what you are telling me


Explanation:
This is how I woould translate it, probably, although I am not using a specific English idiom.

I don't insist, of course. It just seems that, somehow, the word "Devil" must be preserved:)

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Note added at 1 day 10 hrs 6 mins (2004-11-20 08:30:02 GMT)
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Given the context kindly provided by the asker, this is what actually might do just fine:

You don\'t say, you good old S.O.B.

(pardon the vernacular)

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Note added at 2 days 18 hrs 4 mins (2004-11-21 16:27:59 GMT)
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To Dusty: your inital response to my answer, in which you juxtapose the \"native ears\" with the non-native ears is what propelled this entire debate into a space where it should have never been in the first place; oftentimes we are unaware of our own role in the course of events. This is not to perpetuate the argument, but rather to learn from it.

Montefiore
United States
Local time: 07:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Choosing an answer was very difficult because so many where really good. After much debating, I feel that “You don’t say!” is the best one for my scene, even without the word ‘devil’. It has the same ‘flavour’ as the Pt expression - thanks Montefiore.
Thanks also to all the many people who tried to help.
Once again I apologise for not having had the forethought to provide a lot more information at the outset – I won’t do it again, I promise.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: Sorry, Monte, but for one thing I DON'T believe the 'Devil' metaphor works at all in English, and your suggested phrase sounds stilted and unnatural to my native ears :-) /// You'll have a Devil of a time trying :-)))
13 hrs
  -> Dusty, Devil only knows how hard it is to please your native ear:) No need to rub it in that yours are native, and mine are not, however, given the context, your version may be a tad too dramatic, dear:)

disagree  Refugio: "The Devil only knows" expresses perplexity, not incredulity.//Perhaps it would not be necessary to express negative reactions if people gave more thought to their answers.
1 day 11 hrs
  -> I am so glad you didn't hesitate to express your negative opinion - you do it with every chance you get; incidentally, are perplexity and incredulity that far apart?

agree  NancyLynn: I like You don't say! because that is a little dated, and it is beautifully understated, for an English speaker: you don't say! implies I think this guy is feeding me a line of b.s.
2 days 5 hrs
  -> Thank you, NancyLynn. Yes, "you don't say" would fit here nicely
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2 days 11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
that one not even the devil would tell!
Some ideas (which may or may not be suitable for 1922)


Explanation:
Well, I never. Auld Nick himself wouldn't have thought of it.

Well, I'll be danged. That beats them all.

The Devil take it. That tops the lot.

Well, bless me. Trickier than Auld Nick.





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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs 31 mins (2004-11-22 03:55:02 GMT)
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Well, if that isn\'t trickier than Old Nick himself.


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Note added at 3 days 5 hrs 34 mins (2004-11-22 03:58:00 GMT)
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Well, if that isn\'t trickier than Old Nick himself.


chica nueva
Local time: 03:38
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Montefiore: These are pretty darn good, I like them all
6 hrs

agree  Mikhail Kropotov
16 hrs
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