旧艇

English translation: Old timers, old hands, old powers

12:56 Nov 9, 2004

Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Idioms / Maxims / Sayings / Economics

Japanese term or phrase: 旧艇

This apparently idiomatic expression appears in a document discussing the expectation of future economic decline in certain Asian countries. The entire phrase is:

成長率も旧艇かそろって低下する可能性が大きい。

A literal translation would be "former boat", but what does this mean in an economic context?

Dave REESE KudoZ activity Questions: 29 (none open) (2 without valid answers) Answers: 63 Japan
Local time: 00:47

English translation:Old timers, old hands, old powers

Explanation:
旧艇 is as you said is "former boat" or "old ship", which is about to be sent to junk yard, like the word is used in the following site, for instance.
http://www.rr.iij4u.or.jp/‾nishinai/Teitouroku/annai.html

However in your context, I believe it is used metapholically. Thus my translation.
To illustrate furter, let's take a different viewpoint.
Like someone who wrote a worldwide bestseller decades ago (I forgot the title of it), Empire rises and falls. In this case the 旧艇 is an onetime mighty power whose influence is diminishing.
Does that make sense to you?

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Note added at 2 hrs 51 mins (2004-11-09 15:47:50 GMT)
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Dave, are you sure original sentence is 旧艇か, and not 旧艇が?
Please check it out. Although if it is the former, I still believe it is a typo.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 1 hr 55 mins (2004-11-10 14:51:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is an additional comment after reading the entire sentence you posted in the ¥"note¥" section.
Since those mentioned (韓国、台湾，香港、シンガポール、フィリピン) are current economic powers in Asia and, according to the author, their prowess will be declining, and this being the backdrop I still believe the author¥'s use of the word 旧艇 (an old big ships) as an allusion works.

Although I start thinking hinata-san¥'s point has some validity.
It could be a typographic mistake. 内需が減速し、成長率も急低下そろって低下する...........
On the other hand (as a writer myself), using similar (even identical) word in such a close approximation makes me wonder if this is a good writer. He/she should come up with other expression instead of such a repetition. This is not good writing -- and phonetically misleading.

Selected response from:

humbird

Grading comment

Thanks, Susan. Your answer was the most helpful!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

1 +4

miss conversion?

hinata

those vintage boats (or yacht)

Nobuo Kawamura

Old timers, old hands, old powers

humbird

3 -1

fossilize

cinefil

Discussion entries: 8

Minoru Kuwahara

Japan

OK, how about this amendmend! Here's my utmost advice: "��ċ}�ቺ��\��傫��B" -

04:34 Nov 11, 2004

Non-ProZ.com

04:23 Nov 11, 2004

Thank you all for your suggestions. They are all very helpful. Regardless of whether or not the author should or shouldn't have included this phrase (in the text of a speech to be given by the CEO of a major Japanese corporation), the fact is that the phrase is there, and I have to deal with it. Anyway, all answers provided were very useful to me, and I greatly appreciate everyone's help.

tappi_k

United Kingdom

I would agree with Minoru Kuwahara here - it seems to me a bit odd to introduce a metaphor (esp. not-at-all obvious one like ��) here in this sentence. I also don't think the metaphor of �� would fit any of the countries quoted.

03:04 Nov 11, 2004

Non-ProZ.com

10:20 Nov 10, 2004

I'm beginning to think that this term may be a metaphor for the countries mentioned. In that case, Susan would be correct in saying that the particle should be �� instead of ��B

Minoru Kuwahara

Japan

i may not really suggest myself here, while as a Japanese native, i notice the above sentence could be a moderate Japanese with a serious tone (far from a joke with a metaphor), hence the sudden input of �� would sound just and just unfit to me. -

10:15 Nov 10, 2004

Non-ProZ.com

Additional Context

09:56 Nov 10, 2004

Thanks to everyone for their input. Here is the phrase in its entire context. I have to send this in within a few hours, so it looks like I'll be making a judgement call here. ;-)

�^�C�A�}��[�V�A�A�C��h�l�V�A�͌l���D��ɐ��ڂ��錩��݂ł��邱�Ƃ��A05�N��04�N��̍��߂̐��\��傫��B�t�ɁA�؍��A��p�C��`�A�V��K�|�[��A�t�B��s��͓��A��Ēቺ��\��傫��B

Minoru Kuwahara

Japan

if it is certain metaphor, the same word �� may appear in some other parts in the document at your hand. Are there any other such examples for us to guess better? -

21:16 Nov 9, 2004

Non-ProZ.com

13:16 Nov 9, 2004

hinata: I didn't think of that. Thanks for the suggestion. It does make some sense.

Answers

35 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

fossilize

Explanation:
旧艇 could be miss conversion of 旧弊
I guess that 旧弊 in the context means 旧弊化する
■旧弊な : wiped-out
■旧弊な頑固者 : fogy
■旧弊な世界 : squaresville
■旧弊に対する反抗 : rebellion against old-fashioned customs
■旧弊の : old-fashioned
■旧弊化 : fossilisation●fossilization
■旧弊家 : old school●square-toes
■旧弊家たち : one's old school
英辞郎

fos･sil･ize
■v.t.
【1】｡地質｢…を化石にする,化石化する(petrify).
【2】*比喩的*硬直化させる,固定化する;〈人･制度などを〉時代遅れにする,古臭くする:
Time has fossilized such methods. このような方法は時がたつうちに時代遅れになってしまった.
ランダムハウス英語辞典

cinefil
Japan
Local time: 00:47
Native speaker of:

Japanese
PRO pts in category: 4

16 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

旧艇 miss conversion?

Explanation:
Aren't these words some miss conversion of Chinese characters of "急低下" that have same sounds of "旧艇か(kyuu-teika)"？

I just want to make a suggetion.

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Note added at 12 hrs 7 mins (2004-11-10 01:03:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you don¥'t mind, please show any sentence before and after the sentence.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs 11 mins (2004-11-10 01:08:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you don¥'t mind, please show any sentence before and after the sentence.
These sentence sounds rather strange or imperfect.

hinata
Japan
Local time: 00:47
Native speaker of:

Japanese

22 hrs confidence:

those vintage boats (or yacht)

Explanation:
This is a figurative manner of speaking about old timer nations.

Nobuo Kawamura
Japan
Local time: 00:47
Native speaker of:

Japanese
PRO pts in category: 8

2 hrs confidence:

旧艇

Old timers, old hands, old powers

humbird
Native speaker of:

Japanese,

English
PRO pts in category: 8

Grading comment

Thanks, Susan. Your answer was the most helpful!

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旧艇

English translation: Old timers, old hands, old powers

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English translation: Old timers, old hands, old powers

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