slums/shantytown

English translation: not really

20:33 Aug 29, 2004

English language (monolingual) [PRO]
Social Sciences - Linguistics

English term or phrase: slums/shantytown

I know their dictionary definitions. Can they be used as synonyms? or "near" synonyms?

Joanna8 (X) KudoZ activity Questions: 66 (1 open) (2 closed without grading) Answers: 7
Local time: 10:43

Selected answer:not really

Explanation:
Although similar in some ways, I believe "slum" connotes a number of conditions that "shantytown" does not. The former, for example, connotes "a densely populated usually urban area marked by crowding, dirty run-down" (Merriam-Webster) whereas "shantytown" is snynomous as far as poverty is concerned, but without the other social conditions of being dirty, crowded, etc.: " : a usually poor town or section of a town consisting mostly of shanties"

Mike :)

Selected response from:

Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
Local time: 05:43

Grading comment

Graded automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

SUMMARY OF ALL EXPLANATIONS PROVIDED

4 +9

not really

Michael Powers (PhD)

4 +6

Explanation

Kim Metzger

4 +2

No, NOT the same!

Tony M

4 +1

approximate synonyms, but usage is different

conejo

for me they are the same

Paul Dixon

4 +1

In support of Dusty, that Shantytowns are not the same as slums

DGK T-I

See explanation -- difference can be following

humbird

Discussion entries: 3

Answers

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +6

Explanation

Explanation:
Slum is a rather ugly word, but it's a generic term for poverty-stricken parts of town. Shantytown, to my ears, has a somewhat more pleasant tone to it. It's also not a term I would use to describe parts of US cities. A shanty is small, crudely built shack. The American poor don't live in shanties. They do in Mexico, Shouth Africa, etc.

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Note added at 4 mins (2004-08-29 20:38:02 GMT)
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I should say, the American poor who live in cities don\'t live in shanties. They do in the rural South, however and in South Africa.

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 03:43
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 187

6 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +9

not really

Michael Powers (PhD)
United States
Local time: 05:43
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 136

Grading comment

Graded automatically based on peer agreement.

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

approximate synonyms, but usage is different

Explanation:
The meaning of the two is basically the same, but I think "slums" is in much wider use than "shantytown." To me, "shantytown" sounds more old-fashioned, almost like a literary usage. You would never see that in a newspaper article. "Slums" is a more general-use term.

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Note added at 26 mins (2004-08-29 20:59:32 GMT)
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In response to your note: in my opinion, it would be better to translate \"shantytown\" as \"slum\" than as \"town district\", especially if there are not 2 words for \"slum\" & \"shantytown\" in whatever language you are translating into.

conejo
United States
Local time: 04:43
Native speaker of: English

1 hr confidence:

for me they are the same

Explanation:
I use them interchangeably, although as I see it "slums" is more general. A quaint slant on this is the fact that in many magazines I have seen the Brazilian term (favela) kept in the original form, untranslated - maybe to suggest that they are in some way different from any other slums (or shantytowns).

Paul Dixon
Brazil
Local time: 06:43
Native speaker of:

English,

Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 5

15 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

In support of Dusty, that Shantytowns are not the same as slums

Explanation:
eg: in the BBC report I have given in my comment to Dusty's answer, the shantytown is an area of improvized shacks (shantys) within the slum district, but
(in the wording of the report) the slum district extends beyond it to include areas of decayed housing where living conditions are bad (the buildings are or were "proper" buildings, but living conditions are bad - eg: very bad state of repair, sanitation, etc).
I would argue that a shantytown (large collection of shantys/shacks) can be a slum, or part of a slum, but it isn't necessarily one of those things; when conditions are bad it's a specific sort of slum (if it can be described as a slum) and many slums are not shantytowns - using the word slum on its own can conjure up different images from shantytown (images of decayed "heavily built" urban slums).
(Understanding 'shanty' may help understand where the idea of 'shantytown' comes from:
"a ramshackle hut; crude dwelling
[formerly, in Canada]a a log bunkhouse at a lumber camp,
b) the camp itself
[ETYMOLOGY: 19th Century: from Canadian French chantier cabin built in a lumber camp, from Old French gantier gantry]"
(Collins Dictionary)

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Note added at 15 hrs 35 mins (2004-08-30 12:09:04 GMT)
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(I see now that Kim already explained \'shanty\', above)

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Note added at 15 hrs 38 mins (2004-08-30 12:11:32 GMT)
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BBC ref. where the shantytown is within a slum district, but the slum district extends beyond it:
eg: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/3497194.stm

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Note added at 15 hrs 43 mins (2004-08-30 12:16:11 GMT)
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Another interpretation is that slum is being used here to say to talk about the conditions in the shantytown being slum conditions (shantytowns often have poor living conditions, etc because of their nature) but their defining feature is their \"shantyness\" (flimsy improvized building).

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Note added at 15 hrs 44 mins (2004-08-30 12:17:31 GMT)
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(Used here, in the BBC report - I mean.)

The distinction is an important one, as Dusty argues.

DGK T-I
United Kingdom
Local time: 10:43
Works in field
PRO pts in category: 4

1 hr confidence:

See explanation -- difference can be following

Explanation:
Yes they are synonymous. Both are words for poverty-stricken big city district and its housing conditions (all other answerers already said that). However I wish to add one thing that is not touched by others.
Population migration is a common social phenomenon throughout modern world. Poor people without resource constantly driven from their homeland -- destination big cities in search of job. They stuck in modern poverty of industrial society, and their end of trail is "shantytown".
So the difference I like to point out is as follows:
"Slum" is for established urban poor (i.e. maybe living there for generatations) and means to climb up the social ladder is often shut in front of them. As opposed old and established "Slum" area, "Shantytown" is occupied by newly arrived migrants from rural area. It is usually shantytown which is torn down for city authorities and such, whereas slum is not so easy to remove.
Well, that how I see it.

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Note added at 1 hr 45 mins (2004-08-29 22:18:24 GMT)
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In a nutshell -- slum (a bit more permanent), shantytown (temporary and transient)

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Note added at 16 hrs 3 mins (2004-08-30 12:36:56 GMT)
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You saw those pictures of poverty-stricken shanties of South American big cities. They are occupied by recent arrivals from rural areas, mostly by so-called Indios. As their tranditional means of living uprooted, they come to big cities for their survival. Their means don\'t even afford slum living. They scrape up all they can find to call it a home. Its a fragile thing and subject to forced removal -- often times but always, as they grow bigger by the continuous flow of recent arrivals.
The climate of your country Poland may not support this kind of below sub-standard housing. That\'s why we see many in South America or other developing countries in Tropic area.

humbird
Native speaker of:

Japanese,

English
PRO pts in category: 4

12 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

No, NOT the same!

Explanation:
Well, I'm checking in here to add my three ha'p'orth, as I feel quite strongly about my opinion, which seems to be divergent from many of my colleagues. And I should perhaps point out that I am speaking from a British EN. point of view.
To me, there is a very distinct difference between these two terms, and only very occasionally might they be considered interchangeable.

For me, 'slum' means a part of the city that is built of 'proper' houses (indeed, which might once have been a posh area), or at least poor-quality workers housing (as in Victorian industrial cities), but where people now live in most unsatisfactory conditions.

A 'shantytown', on the other hand, is an area of roughly-built shacks and other shelters etc. that has gown up on an 'unofficial' and 'ad hoc' basis on some waste land, for example.

So the appearance, origins, history and functions of the two are different, and I personally feel it is quite important to maintain the distinction between them.

'slum' carries an idea of 'urban decay'.

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Note added at 2 days 2 hrs 17 mins (2004-08-31 22:50:26 GMT)
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In reply to Susan\'s peer response

I do not see anything cut-and-dried about it, nor black-&-white for that matter. Clearly, both terms describe different kinds of human misery, and either is a disgrace in a modern society.

But linguistically, there IS a difference of meaning, and it is apparently this that Asker wished to know. I think the very fruitful discussion that has taken place has given Asker ample food for thought, and adequately defined at least to my satisfaction what I as a native speaker would identify as the subtle but important differences of meaning between these terms -- and it\'s much, much more than a question of duration, scale, or anything else. This is something fundamentally rooted in modern culture, though of course it has existed for aeons...

Tony M
France
Local time: 11:43
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 156

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English translation: not really

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