qu’en vue et lors

English translation: [...] will apply only at the time of and for the purpose of entering into the initial contract

08:58 Jun 18, 2020
French to English translations [PRO]
COVID-19 - Law/Patents - Law: Contract(s)
French term or phrase: qu’en vue et lors
les conditions ... ne s’appliquent qu’en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial

Okay so my initial translation is the conditions apply only on conclusion (signature) of the initial (or first) contract. But that leaves out 'en vue'.

Is this something like prior to and on conclusion of the contract?
Thanks for your help
Mark Lewis
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:24
English translation:[...] will apply only at the time of and for the purpose of entering into the initial contract
Explanation:
missing context:

this a part of a bog standard / boilerplate clause found in the wording of thousands of contracts published in the searchable Web (and probably even more in the non-searchable Web and outside the Web!):

[certaines conditions] ne s'appliquent qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial, pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

One sample, THIS being the original text:

Page 10:

9/ Faculté de renonciation
....
Il est précisé que les règles applicables en matière de vente à distance ne s’appliquent :
- qu’au premier contrat, pour les contrats à durée déterminée suivis d'opérations successives ou d'une série d'opérations distinctes, de même nature, échelonnées dans le temps ;
- qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

https://www.acs-ami.com/files/pdf/AHIA-Assistance-RC-IB-fr.p... page

so the part
[... les règles applicables en matière de vente à distance ne s’appliquent]
...
- qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

would be:

- [distance selling rules will apply only] at the time of and for the purpose of entering into the initial contract, for contracts renewable by tacit reconduction.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2020-06-19 04:13:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

point of method:

try https://www.google.com/search?q="qu'en vue et lors"

and you will find that ALL search resuts include

qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial

and most of them go to add

qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

Also, if you think of it, anything that would apply "lors de la conclusion du contrat" can not be IN the contract itself (as a contract can not apply before it's even agreed) so these "conditions" must be "outside of the contract", like in some rules (laws) applicable to the contract.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2020-06-19 12:09:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial"

can be expanded in two separate clauses:

- en vue de la conclusion du contrat initial => for the purpose of (entering into the initial contract)
+
- lors de la conclusion du contrat initial => at the time of (entering into the initial contract)

You could stick to the same order in EN i.e. "... for the purpose of and at the time of ..."

It seemed to me that this order sounds more logical: "... at the time of and for the purpose of ...", but using one or the other makes no difference regarding the meaning.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2020-06-19 12:55:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


faire A "en vue de" B = B est l'objectif / le but de l'action A
Selected response from:

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:24
Grading comment
First validated answer (validated by peer agreement)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2[...] will apply only at the time of and for the purpose of entering into the initial contract
Daryo
5 -1with a view to and during
Michael Delrieu
3in relation to and upon signing [conclusion] of
Olga Koepping
3only with a view to the initial contract when entered into
Adrian MM.
3 -3only apply in sight and at the time
Lisa Rosengard


Discussion entries: 14





  

Answers


2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
in relation to and upon signing [conclusion] of


Explanation:
I would understand this to mean that the T&Cs only apply to this contract, and obv only when the contract is executed. presumably just trying to exclude the scope being extended to previous or future contracts.

Olga Koepping
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
Notes to answerer
Asker: that sounds about right ..


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Eliza Hall
4 hrs

disagree  Daryo: very roughly that, but wrong explanation - the missing context (that should have been given by Asker) can be found - it's not about the content of the contract itself (T&C ...) but about legal dispostions applicable to the contract.
15 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
with a view to and during


Explanation:
I found the French and English version of the same contract (see both web references below)

Example sentence(s):
  • - only with a view to and during signing of the initial contract for contracts that are renewable by tacit renewal.

    https://www.acs-ami.com/files/pdf/AHIA-Assistance-RC-IB-fr.pdf
    https://www.acs-ami.com/files/pdf/AHIA-Assistance-RC-IB-en.pdf
Michael Delrieu
France
Local time: 22:24
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  AllegroTrans: a contract takes effect when it signed not during the signing: I think you have misunderstood 'lors de'
4 hrs

disagree  Daryo: this is a bog standard formulation found in thousands and thousands of contracts - I very much doubt that the sample you found is "THE" contract from this ST. The EN version of it is mostly OK, except few bits, like the one about "DURING the signing "
9 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
only with a view to the initial contract when entered into


Explanation:
alos: /with a view *of* and upon making the orginal agreement/ - UK Solicitors prefer a non-binding agreement to a binding contract.

Note that the UK Partnerhip Act 1890 refers to carrying on business with a view *of* and not to profit - the archaic wording possibly refelcting the ambiguity in this case.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 jour 49 minutes (2020-06-19 09:48:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ha, ha - good 'view of profit' question: UK judges, lawyers and law students have been asking that question since 1890. The Aussies have merely changed the wording to 'with a view to' - a questionable move that, as I know from UK co. & partnership law exams, will come in for a deduction of one point. https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/partnership NB the idea is to make a profit in the future, but the Beatles' pop group or band had been considered - in retrospect and on dissolution - to have been an 'informal partnership'. IMO, UK and US property speculators who set up publicity-shy partnerships tp claim tax breaks and VAT clawbacks /e.g. on restoration of run-down properties/ are acting 'with a view of gain' and strictly 'not with a view to profit.'

Example sentence(s):
  • UK Partnership Act 1Persons carrying on a business in common with a view *of* profit This is an essential part of there being a partnership. If persons are not carrying on a business in common, or are not doing so with a view *of* profit ..

    Reference: http://www.proz.com/personal-glossaries/entry/10255019-en-vu...
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 86
Notes to answerer
Asker: But what does with a view of profit mean? Does it mean that you're making profit or that you are likely to make profit?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  GILOU
12 hrs
  -> Merci encore une fois and woof, woof,,,,

disagree  Daryo: unfortunately these references have nothing to do with the ST - avoiding this kind of situation is the whole point of having an unmuous context ... I don't need to "lift" anything from anyone - I answer ONLY when I can understand the question on my own.
19 hrs
  -> Best stick to your 'own' answer that lifts my idea of entry into the contract. // You have pinched my idea of entered into as it postdates my own answer and has never been used before on ProZ as a translation for conclusion.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
[certaines conditions] ne s'appliquent qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial
[...] will apply only at the time of and for the purpose of entering into the initial contract


Explanation:
missing context:

this a part of a bog standard / boilerplate clause found in the wording of thousands of contracts published in the searchable Web (and probably even more in the non-searchable Web and outside the Web!):

[certaines conditions] ne s'appliquent qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial, pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

One sample, THIS being the original text:

Page 10:

9/ Faculté de renonciation
....
Il est précisé que les règles applicables en matière de vente à distance ne s’appliquent :
- qu’au premier contrat, pour les contrats à durée déterminée suivis d'opérations successives ou d'une série d'opérations distinctes, de même nature, échelonnées dans le temps ;
- qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

https://www.acs-ami.com/files/pdf/AHIA-Assistance-RC-IB-fr.p... page

so the part
[... les règles applicables en matière de vente à distance ne s’appliquent]
...
- qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

would be:

- [distance selling rules will apply only] at the time of and for the purpose of entering into the initial contract, for contracts renewable by tacit reconduction.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2020-06-19 04:13:56 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

point of method:

try https://www.google.com/search?q="qu'en vue et lors"

and you will find that ALL search resuts include

qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial

and most of them go to add

qu'en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial pour les contrats renouvelables par tacite reconduction.

Also, if you think of it, anything that would apply "lors de la conclusion du contrat" can not be IN the contract itself (as a contract can not apply before it's even agreed) so these "conditions" must be "outside of the contract", like in some rules (laws) applicable to the contract.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2020-06-19 12:09:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"en vue et lors de la conclusion du contrat initial"

can be expanded in two separate clauses:

- en vue de la conclusion du contrat initial => for the purpose of (entering into the initial contract)
+
- lors de la conclusion du contrat initial => at the time of (entering into the initial contract)

You could stick to the same order in EN i.e. "... for the purpose of and at the time of ..."

It seemed to me that this order sounds more logical: "... at the time of and for the purpose of ...", but using one or the other makes no difference regarding the meaning.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 3 hrs (2020-06-19 12:55:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------


faire A "en vue de" B = B est l'objectif / le but de l'action A

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:24
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 112
Grading comment
First validated answer (validated by peer agreement)
Notes to answerer
Asker: This seems to make logical sense. 'en vue' is then not so much a time construct but for the purpose of. Thanks


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M
2 hrs
  -> Thanks!

neutral  Adrian MM.: No disagree as unclear what the 'tenor' - NB the copyworthy term - of the conditions is, but you have reversed the chronology & literally put the cart before the horse. Routinely, conditions are triggered by the contract made and not the other way round.
13 hrs
  -> these two "conditions" to apply some special rules regarding how contracts are entered into (NOT about the content of the contract itself) must be met BOTH AT THE SAME TIME so the order in which they are enounced doesn't really matter.

agree  Eliza Hall
2 days 17 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -3
only apply in sight and at the time


Explanation:
"The conditions ... only apply 'in sight and at the time' of conclusion of the initial contract ...

"Les conditions ... ne s'appliquent qu'en vue et lors' de la conclusion du contrat inital."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day 9 hrs (2020-06-19 18:02:16 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The only information given is a statement which says that the conditions only apply in sight and at the time of conclusion of the initial contract. A contract of employment would be signed at the beginning of the term of work. The statement is about conditions which only apply towards (in sight of) and at the time of conclusion (end or closure) of the first term of the initial contract. This is without any other information.

Lisa Rosengard
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:24
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4
Notes to answerer
Asker: I thought there was this notion of prior to, or up to and then on completion. but this doesn't seem to make sense because a contract is applicable only on signature.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: Complete nonsense in EN, bears no relation to the meaning of the s/t
5 mins

disagree  AllegroTrans: agree with TM; "apply in sight" makes no sense
1 hr
  -> If "in sight" is too unusual, then better said "Conditions only apply in view of (or in anticipation or preparation) of)

disagree  Daryo: "at the time of" makes sense, but "apply in sight" ???
6 hrs

neutral  SafeTex: You got it right in your reply to AllegroTrans. This is how you need to think Lisa BEFORE posting as we don't want to be unkind, but nearly all of your posts are meaningless in English
14 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search