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French to English translations [PRO] Law/Patents - Law (general)
French term or phrase:appartenance (territoriale)
This is a legal opinion by an expert jurist concerning a bilateral agreement for protection of investments (TBI) between one country and another. A dispute has since arisen concerning the status of a part ("AAA") of one of these countries. The Tribunal is an arbitration tribunal.
"le territoire de AAA est aujourd’hui, comme il l’était au moment des violations alléguées du TBI par BBB [an investment company] au cours de la procédure arbitrale, un territoire dont l’appartenance à un des Etats partie est envisagée de manière fondamentalement divergente par les Parties elles-mêmes."
"I. L’inapplicabilité du TBI à raison de la divergence de vue sur l’appartenance territoriale de AAA"
"L’exigence d’une convergence de vue relativement à l’appartenance territoriale (A.) impose de faire le constat d’une inapplicabilité du TBI relativement à AAA où cette condition n’est plus satisfaite (B.)."
"L’exigence d’une convergence de vue relativement à l’appartenance territoriale"
"Cette distribution de l’espace est mutuellement convenue. Le TBI ne détermine évidemment pas la délimitation territoriale entre les Etats qui y adhèrent mais il établit expressément, en revanche, que l’espace d’application du Traité ne concerne que des zones dont l’appartenance est mutuellement reconnue par les Parties."
"En effet, si le Tribunal a le pouvoir de déterminer la position de l’investissement dans une aire géographique, il n’a pas le pouvoir de déterminer l’appartenance de cette aire géographique à l’une des Parties contractantes."
"La situation de revendication mutuelle d’un territoire exclut que cette zone puisse être regardée en commun par les Etats parties comme soumise à une appartenance exclusive, condition mise à l’applicabilité des normes conventionnelles dans ce cas." (it occurs more often than this).
I thought likely candidates might be "affiliation", "possession" or maybe "attachment". Possibly there's a quite specific and precise EN legal phrase ("possession territoriale" is good enough French: why not use it?).
Explanation: La Cour internationale de Justice / The International Court of Justice
case CR 2002/29
Sovereignty over Pulau Ligitan and Pulau Sipadan (Indonesia/Malaysia)
page 17:
in fact, according to Malaysia itself (see Memorial of Malaysia, p. 65, para. 6.9; see also Reply of Malaysia, p. 70, para. 5.14), this was Bajau Laut (Nos. 18, 21, 22, 23, 25, 32 and 45), whose links with the Sultanate of Sulu (as, moreover, with the Sultanates of Boeloengan and Berou) and with the colonial powers do not warrant any definite conclusion on the territorial appurtenance of the areas where they operated as, I repeat, Indonesia has shown in its Counter-Memorial (pp. 19-37, paras. 3.23-3.73), without being contradicted
page 36: 53. Certain maps produced by Malaysia are of Dutch and British origin and date from the beginning of the last century, particularly the nautical maps and the maps prepared by the Netherlands East Indies Topographical Office. They show only the boundaries on the island of Borneo itself. As already noted in our written pleadings (Counter-Memorial, Vol. 1, Map Annex, paras. A.4 and A.5 and Reply, Vol. 1, Map Annex, paras. 4 and 5), the purpose of these maps is to provide technical information and they cannot be reliable sources for possible pointers regarding territorial appurtenance. No attribution of sovereignty is indicated on them and, furthermore, we have no way of knowing in what circumstances they were prepared. They are therefore not of any great help in settling the question put to the Court.
page 39: 1. I showed a few moments ago that the effectivités on which Malaysia relies were not such as to establish any territorial title of that Party to Pulau Ligitan and Pulau Sipadan; in particular, it seems that the collection of turtle eggs on Sipadan, by the Bajau Laut from Danawan among others, had no particular bearing on the island’s appurtenance to one Party or the other
An official document of The International Court of Justice - dealing with a lot of territorial disputes, part of the United Nations system, French and English being its official languages.
Yes, thanks, strong evidence. Mental note to self: always use Google as well as DuckDuckGo on things like this. I use the latter in an attempt to avoid Google mind-scrutiny and logging of my every passing thought. But quality-wise it appears that Google can't be beat.
I wasn't saying that the Dordogne was a possession, but that France might be said to have "territorial possession" of it. But "territorial appurtenance" now looks legit.
that would be fine only for a colony that is "owned" by a colonial power - not good as a general term meaning that a territory "belongs to / is a part of" some State.
You certainly wouldn't say that La Dordogne is "a possession" of France? Or that Scotland is "a possession" of UK?
Regarding "territorial appurtenance" you can find plenty of samples on the Web, many in perfectly good sounding texts. I would think that the sample from The International Court of Justice is pretty convincing. The International Court of Justice being part of the United Nations system, and dealing with lots of territorial disputes, I would expect their translations to be pretty good. (I very much doubt that their translators are chosen on the basis of "best prices" or paid by niggling about "fuzzy matches & repetitions" ...)
appurtenance I have now looked at many, many dictionaries and have not seen a single endorsement of the idea that this word means "belonging" in modern EN. http://institute.cesci-net.eu/ seems to be a Hungarian institution.
jurisdiction I quite like this... but there seems to be something not quite "political" enough about it.
possession Given that appartenance does not seem to be a FR legal term, "possession" may well convey as much as does the FR.
affiliation I initially thought this might be the right one... but now I'm far from sure. Appartenance seems stronger than this: merely the question of which company "owns/possesses" territory X. Is the Isle of Wight "affiliated" to the UK? No, it is part of the UK; if one bothers to ask the question in the first place, the UK has territorial possession of the Isle of Wight.
"false friends" everywhere? The vast majority of "similarly sounding" translations are perfectly good translations - the fact that occasionally you get "false friends" is not an excuse for seeing them everywhere.
Not to forget that the Asker is based in England where "International English or (double shudder) EU English or Continental European English" is so frequently encountered that I doubt that it would be a pretext for any kind of linguistic "Peasant's revolt" OTOH I did notice quite a number of people in UK allergic to US English...
At best, "territorial appurtenance" is a calque, and at worst (shudder) it is International English or (double shudder) EU English or Continental European English.
ph-b (X)
France
"Care to put it as your own answer?"
05:49 Jun 5, 2020
No, because it isn't my field, but if specialists think it's the right answer, they should feel free to do so.
I found other samples confirming that "territorial appurtenance" is used to mean exactly what it's supposed to mean in this text.
Care to put it as your own answer?
Here is good sample:
The Omnipresence of an Invisible Border in the Greater Geneva Area
Within the Greater Geneva urban space, the border as a line of demarcation between France and Switzerland is invisible most of the time, except for the few border posts that subsist here and there. Near the actual border, it is often difficult to figure out whether one is still in Switzerland or already in France (or viceversa) and only the road signs betray the territorial appurtenance of the places.
I'm out of my comfort zone here, but how about this? *** In the context of an international arbitration between the UK and Mauritius: “There is a basic distinction… between the arrangements that are put in place for… the day-to-day administration of a territory, and its territorial appurtenance.” https://arbitrationlaw.com/sites/default/files/free_pdfs/201...***
As for opposing geography and the “feelings of populations” (you mention this point above in the discussion): “The hinterland was based upon a concept of a reasonable territorial appurtenance; Turkey's arguments really relied on personal relationships, which had no necessary connection with territory.” https://digitalcommons.law.yale.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?arti...***These*** stand for paragraph tags, which apparently no longer work here.
Great suggestion, thank you. It hadn't occurred to me, and you are right. I found the document and read it through. There is no word in the English version which could be a translation of appartenance, and this isn't surprising: when this was concluded this divergence de vue had not occurred. It is only now that what was pretty much boilerplate legalese is being forensically picked apart at (presumably) eye-watering expense by "the finest legal minds" (which never did come cheap).
Also concur about the general nature of this TBI and the lack of need for specific details.
This bilateral convention/treaty for the protection of investments (TBI) MUST have been published in the official publications of BOTH countries. The right term must be there.
Also, it's quite possible that there is a "model" for this type of conventions - many conventions don't get negotiated from scratch at every go - there are "models" for all sort of conventions - find the right "model" and you'll get a treasure trove of terminology.
BTW, most "models" are in English.
Also, this is a very general clause that could equally apply to ANY territory "belonging" in any kind of way to ANY State => the specific names of the territory and the controlling State are "surplus to requirement" - NOT NEEDED at all.
This is like a playing 20 questions! My guess would be ownership, unless this is disputed.But without knowing what territory we're talking about, we can't be sure. Also, TBI = BIT = bilateral investment treaty.
ph-b (X)
France
territorial link(s)?
12:53 Jun 3, 2020
Found in some sources when searching "BIT/territory/issues". One source mentions "the tribunal had to address the criterion of territorial linkage".
I think some of this can be answered from the excerpts: the states are parties to the TBI (bilateral treaty on protection of investments); there is a "divergence de vue" concerning appartenance territoriale.
Even your suggestion calls for a need for us to understand what's going on. I fully appreciate that the Asker cannot give us any further details of AAA's CURRENT status (e.g. do 2 diiferent countries claim jurisdiction over AAA, etc.? and for "états partie, what are they party to?). Therein lies the problem. I don't think we can give a precise answer without knowing more about the background.
I agree totally. Unfortunately confidentiality does indeed dictate that I not disclose the actual states involved. Suffice to say that, as I'm sure you appreciate, this is about a legal relationship in international law, and is absolutely not about feelings of populations (or countries or regions).
It sounds like either possession or ownership, depending on its legal status. I agree with Allegro that there's no apparent need to conceal the identity of this territory.
Obviously asker, you want to maintain confifdentiality. But unless we know the status of AAA within the country concerned, it's very hard to give a reliable translation. If I say Wales has an "allegiance" to the UK it's an understatement (even if not all Welsh people agree) - Wales is a part of the UK. If I say the Crimea has an allegiance to Russia, this is arguably true but it being within Russia is highly disputed.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
10 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): -1
allegiance
Explanation: Crossing the Neoliberal Line: Pacific Rim Migration and the ...books.google.co.uk › books ... basis of its violation of a "structure of feeling," in Raymond Williams's sense of ... human warmth or sense of territorial allegiance, promoters could uphold it as ... Katharyne Mitchell - 2004 - Literary Criticism
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 11 mins (2020-06-03 11:26:21 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Identity at the edge of the constitutional community (Chapter 2 ...www.cambridge.org › core › product › core-reader Sovereignty assumes allegiance by the people in that territory. Allegiance can be understood in various ways, from a personal feeling of attachment, to a formal ...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 16 mins (2020-06-03 11:31:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
OR
belonging
Does citizenship always further Immigrants' feeling of ...link.springer.com › article 1 Mar 2017 - Immigrants' access to citizenship in their country of residence is ... experience greater attachment to the host nation (i.e. belonging) from ... states are not so much acting to protect their territorial borders; rather ... The ISSP also contains information about the birth country of the respondent's mother, but as ... by KB Simonsen - 2017 - Cited by 18 - Related articles
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 17 mins (2020-06-03 11:33:03 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
L'Union européenne et le sentiment d'appartenance ... - Éruditwww.erudit.org › euro › 2017-v12-n1-euro03056 8 May 2017 - Volume 12, Number 1, 2017 L'Union européenne et le sentiment d'appartenance The European Union and the Sense of Belonging Die ...
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 18 mins (2020-06-03 11:33:21 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
OK, I take your point
liz askew United Kingdom Local time: 12:25 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 96
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. I'm a little sceptical because this concerns a legal relationship between a geographical area and the State which controls it. It is not about how the people living there may or may not feel about things.
Explanation: The word "territorial" may be deemed present from context. Therefore: Alternative: formal legal relationship. (Remark: Also understood is the fact that the subject of the relationship is one or more certain zones or areas or territories etc.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2020-06-03 12:17:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
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TechLawDC United States Local time: 08:25 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 52