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attaché communal

English translation: Council Officer

16:07 Sep 23, 2019
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Civil status
French term or phrase: attaché communal
This is a French Birth certificate.

The person before whom the document was signed is a Registrar by appointment, but also an "attaché communal"

Any ideas what that is in English?
Cassandra Delacote
France
Local time: 01:18
English translation:Council Officer
Explanation:
In UK (and this seems to be the same in Australis, see link) most general council workers are classed as "officers".

This news article, about a registrar, demonstrates how a "registrar" is also an Officer

"COUNCIL OFFICER TAKES NATIONAL TITLE
Darlington's superintendent registrar Anthony Hall was named the country’s REGISTRAR of the year at the annual Local Authority Coordinators of Regulatory Services (Lacors) conference earlier this month."
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/darlington/4380...
Selected response from:

Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:18
Grading comment
Thank you for this answer which is the one I finally selected. But I also want to thank all the others for their helpful and insightful explanations/suggestions. It is not always easy to make a decision!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3municipal officer
Ian Davies
4Council Officer
Lara Barnett
4local-government officer
Rafael Clerge
4 -1city council officer
Nicolas Gambardella
2Assistant (UK) Borough or Deputy (US) Town Clerk
Adrian MM.
3 -1civil servant seconded to the commune [local authority]
B D Finch
Summary of reference entries provided
Le grade d'attaché communal ...
Daryo

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
city council officer


Explanation:
An "attaché communal" is a "fonctionnaire territorial", that is a civil servant delegated to a local authority. In the UK, civil servants do not include officers of local government authorities. In your case, the person is an officer of a local government (or authority). Since it is "communal", I would translate it in council officer, or city council officer

Nicolas Gambardella
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:18
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mark Harris
52 mins
disagree  B D Finch: The commune is a local council, which may well not be a city. (The departmental capital I live in isn't a city.) A "council officer" is not a civil servant and is employed directly by the local authority.
58 mins
disagree  Daryo: B D Finch has a good point "une commune" may not have a single "city" in it. It's more the equivalent of a "local authority" - a local council
2 hrs
neutral  Lara Barnett: I agree with the comments about "City", there is nothing in the French term that suggests this is regarding a City Council.// I meant the "city" part is not relevant.
3 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
Assistant (UK) Borough or Deputy (US) Town Clerk


Explanation:
Would be useful to know what French term is used for Registrar so we - pace Daryo - can eliminate (UK) Superintendent Registrar as an option.

Otherwise, in the UK as opposed to many US Federal States, a Town Clerk is, in my experience, often an autocratic, administrative post distinct from a Register (not Registry) Office Superintendent.

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Note added at 4 hrs (2019-09-23 20:39:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Bath, Maine, USA and not England: 'Birth records are available at the municipal clerk's office where the child was born'

Example sentence(s):
  • New York State marriage licenses may be obtained from the Town Clerk's office and can be used anywhere in the State of New York.

    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french-to-english/other/1157752-at...
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Municipal_clerk
Adrian MM.
Austria
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 359

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  B D Finch: The point of the source term is not the function fulfilled by the person concerned, but their employment status, which is that of a civil servant on attachment to a local authority. Why "town clerk"? http://www.portlandtowncouncil.gov.uk/parish-clerk.html
13 hrs
  -> OK. but do we really need for a sign-off a long explanation of a civil-servant secondment as an NB junior-ranking 'local government. officer'.//Town Clerk had been prefaced with the US - not the English Home Counties - overbearing equivalent.
neutral  AllegroTrans: I both agree with BD and say that, once again, you are wrongly trying to mushroom terms like this into the UK or USA systems
1 day 20 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Council Officer


Explanation:
In UK (and this seems to be the same in Australis, see link) most general council workers are classed as "officers".

This news article, about a registrar, demonstrates how a "registrar" is also an Officer

"COUNCIL OFFICER TAKES NATIONAL TITLE
Darlington's superintendent registrar Anthony Hall was named the country’s REGISTRAR of the year at the annual Local Authority Coordinators of Regulatory Services (Lacors) conference earlier this month."
https://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/local/darlington/4380...

Example sentence(s):
  • "The work of the Council is implemented by COUNCIL OFFICERS - these are staff who are not elected and are not party political."
  • "Council staff are responsible for providing advice, implementing council’s direction and taking action on council decisions. COUNCIL OFFICERS also provide advice and expertise that help a council to form policy decisions, along with delivering services

    https://www.hackney.gov.uk/article/3605/How-the-Council-works
    Reference: http://knowyourcouncil.vic.gov.au/guide-to-councils/how-coun...
Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 00:18
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thank you for this answer which is the one I finally selected. But I also want to thank all the others for their helpful and insightful explanations/suggestions. It is not always easy to make a decision!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  B D Finch: I was a council officer for over ten years and can assure you that, unlike an "attaché communal", I was not a civil servant. Difference between a council worker and a council officer: the latter has an administrative and even decision-making function.
13 hrs
agree  SafeTex: If "municipal" officer can get 3 agrees, "council officer" does not deserve a disagree. The two terms conjure up the same idea but one is more US and one more GB
2 days 3 hrs
  -> Thank you, my disagree seems to be down to my "peer comment disagree" stalker.
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21 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
municipal officer


Explanation:
This is what I usually use. Pretty simple.


    https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/municipal-officer-or-employee
Ian Davies
Australia
Local time: 09:18
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Eliza Hall: Yes. This is generic enough to refer to a status or grade (as opposed to a job title, which attaché communal is not), while giving the gist of the meaning to the EN reader.
1 hr
agree  Ph_B (X)
1 hr
agree  Cyril Tollari
6 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
civil servant seconded to the commune [local authority]


Explanation:
See page 170 of "Democracy and Decentralisation in South Asia and West Africa: Participation ..."
By Richard C Crook, Richard C. Crook, James Manor, Fellows of the Institute of Development Studies James Manor
https://bit.ly/2kWaaGD

The Government and Politics of France
By Andrew Knapp, Vincent Wright
https://bit.ly/2mffVPC
"territorial civil service, creating the grade of administrateur territorial at a ... Servants of the state were also seconded to local authorities, particularly the regions, ... "

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2019-09-24 09:57:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.onisep.fr/Ressources/Univers-Metier/Metiers/attac...
"Urbanisme, finances, ressources humaines, animation... la fonction d'attaché territorial peut s'exercer dans un grand nombre de domaines et revêtir des aspects très différents. Ce fonctionnaire de catégorie A peut travailler dans n'importe quelle collectivité territoriale : conseil général ou régional, municipalité, établissement public... et a souvent la charge d'une équipe ou d'un service. Durant sa carrière, il doit faire jouer la mobilité hiérarchique et géographique pour avancer en grade et en salaire.

Pour accéder à ce métier, il faut réussir un concours, accessible à partir d'un niveau bac + 3 ou équivalent. Dans certains cas, le diplôme peut être remplacé par de l'expérience professionnelle. Le concours peut être préparé dans un Ipag (institut de préparation à l'administration générale). Après la réussite au concours, le futur attaché a 3 ans pour trouver un poste. Une fois recruté, il devient stagiaire et reçoit une formation adaptée à son poste, à l'Enact (École nationale d'application des cadres territoriaux) à Angers, Montpellier ou Nancy."

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Note added at 18 hrs (2019-09-24 10:13:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As clarified by the above note, the attaché is attached to a local authority, rather than seconded to it, because they have no home base that they are seconded from. However, unlike a council officer (fonctionnaire communal), they are expected to move between local authorities and their training is centralised and nationally organised.

So, I revise my answer to:
civil servant attached to the commune [local authority]


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2019-09-24 10:32:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attaché_territorial
"En France, les attachés territoriaux sont des fonctionnaires d'un cadre d'emplois de catégorie A occupant des emplois de cadres intermédiaires.

Ce cadre d'emplois comporte les grades d'attaché territorial, d'attaché territorial principal, directeur territorial (en voie d'extinction) et d'attaché hors classe..

Ils sont appelés à assurer des responsabilités dans des secteurs très divers, notamment ceux de l’administration générale (ressources humaines, finances, marchés publics...), de l’action sanitaire et sociale, de l’informatique, de l’animation.

Ils exercent leurs missions au sein d'une collectivité territoriale (commune, département, région) ou dans l'un de ses établissements publics. "

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days 19 hrs (2019-09-26 11:56:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@Asker
Bear in mind that the average council officer is not an "attaché communal".

B D Finch
France
Local time: 01:18
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 509
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you BD Finch for all your explanations, and also to all who have contributed to the discussion and made cogent distinctions. However this answer is too cumbersome and I am likely to select "council officer" after waiting a little longer


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Daryo: see refs.
1 hr
  -> I think that the only change that I should make is to change "seconded" to "attached". This is a civil servant, not a local council officer, though they are attached to a local authority.
neutral  Ph_B (X): "seconded" would be the translation of détachés or mis à disposition.
15 hrs
  -> See note above.
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5 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
local-government officer


Explanation:
Communal refers to local and an attaché is a fonctionnaire. That is, according to The Council of Europe French-English Legal Dictionary, it's a local-government officer.

SOURCE: The Council of Europe French-English Legal Dictionary by F. H. S. Bridge, Council of Europe


Rafael Clerge
Local time: 16:18
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish
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Reference comments


3 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Le grade d'attaché communal ...

Reference information:
Le statut de 1952, la loi du 13 juillet 1972, la création du grade d'attaché communal sont autant de réformes visant à ... des collectivités locales accentue notablement le processus d'imitation des traits structurels de la fonction publique d'Etat.

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=PuoqAQAAIAAJ&q="attaché ...

fois qu'un maire ou un président d'établissement public procède à la nomination d'un attaché communal recruté à l'issue d'un des trois concours prévu à l'article 4 ci-dessus, il peut décider d'intégrer dans un second poste d'attaché soit : Un chef de bureau en fonction à la date ... Les agents intégrés en application des articles 18 et 19 ci-dessus sont reclassés dans le grade d'attaché communal de 1"°

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=q0rBTIxXYMsC&q="attaché ...

Les discussions relatives à plusieurs projets et d'abord à la création du grade d'attaché communal sont donc activement ... qui ne sont pas négligeables, une réflexion plus hardie doit être menée sur l'avenir de la fonction publique locale.
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=z-Bj91o5BRMC&q="attaché ...

more

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q="attaché communal" grade d...

Daryo
United Kingdom
Native speaker of: Native in SerbianSerbian, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 196

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  AllegroTrans: Yes, always start with facts rather than trying to mushroom terms like this into one's own country system. Vive la différence.
3 hrs
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