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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature / poesía barroca española/JÁCARA DE LA MÉNDEZ
Spanish term or phrase:la hicieron obispar
No sé si es un refrán o Quevedo jugando con las palabras. Su sentido es evidente pero no se me ocurre como traducirlo. Agradezco desde ya cualquier sugerencia.
Tiénenos muy lastimadas la justicia, sin pensar que se hizo en nuestra madre, la vieja del arrabal, pues sin respetar las tocas. ni las canas ni la edad, **a fuerza de cardenales ya la hicieron obispar.**
Explanation: "Obispar" had three meanings: 1. become a bishop or make someone a bishop 2. be subjected to public mockery by being made to ride on an ass wearing a paper mitre on your head (this was done to "alcahuetas", procuresses). 3. die.
Meaning 1 is still in the DLE.
Meanings 1 and 2 are explained by John Stevens in his Spanish-English dictionary (1706):
"Obispar, to make a bishop, ironically, to be expos'd to publick shame, which is done riding on an ass with a paper cap, like a mitre on the head, answerable to our carting."
Meaning 3 is in early RAE dictionaries:
"Obispar. Vulgar y metaphoricamente se toma por morirse, y algunas veces por haber perdido alguna cosa que se tenia [...]"
"Cardenales", of course, means both cardinals and bruises.
So the primary meaning is "they gave her so many bruises that they exposed her to public shame" or "they killed her", or possibly even both. And it plays on a secondary meaning: "with so many cardinals they made her a bishop". It's extremely ingenious and quite impossible to capture in English.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 56 mins (2019-06-28 01:55:08 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I completely agree, Lydia! He is amazing; a real virtuoso with words.
Very helpful discussion and input. You guys have definitely shed some light on this very clever, funny, stressful and confusing poem! Stay tuned, for I'm certain there will be more. (I have 17 pages to go)
I was asked to translate without concerning myself (too much) with rhyme and rhythm. That being said, there are instances where I have been able to maintain a certain poetic rhythm, so... why not?
I don't think a wordplay based on "cart" or "carting" would work because hardly anyone has heard of it, but being pilloried, which most people have heard of, might offer possibilities. The whole point of the pillory as a punishment was for people to throw things at you. And like "obispar" it was accompanied, before or after, by whipping (hence the "cardenales"). Procuresses were "welted and pelted", as you might say.
As Stevens says in 1706, obispar, "riding on an ass with a paper cap, like a mitre on the head", was "answerable to our carting": that is, the British equivalent was carting, being carried through the streets in a cart, exposed to public mockery and abuse and being pelted with rotten eggs, ordure, etc. There were features in common in both France and England, where prostitutes, bawds and procurers/procuresses were also paraded mounted on an ass (facing the tail), wearing opprobrious headgear comparable with the paper "mitre" in Spain, and wearing a notice announcing their offence. Here are some references for those interested: https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2XtWDhgljvkC&pg=PA208&lp... https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=iBlFRjwXXRgC&pg=PA182&lp...
That is what you have to do here, and Carol's comment is a reminder that once you have established what the original actually means, you then have to work out how to render it. My answer, and the ensuing discussion on meanings of "obispar", are only half of an answer, and the easier half at that. But that first half is essential, all the same, because the harder and more creative task that follows, inventing something in English that captures the essential point, requires knowing what the essential point is.
"Translations" of poetry that work, that people actually want to read for aesthetic purposes, not just as study aids for reading the original, will always be to some degree poems inspired by poems in other languages. Ezra Pound wrote wonderful (IMO) "translations" of Chinese poems without understanding a word of Chinese. Chinese poetry experts have always protested that they were a travesty of the original. To write what Pound wrote you have to be a great poet; to write something that good that is also faithful verges on the impossible. But to attempt it is incredibly enriching and not a waste of time.
Obviously you cannot hope to translate this particular play on words, but you can still probably invent a slightly different pun using the material you have got. Think “habit”, “veil”, “old age”,... etc, etc, and you should eventually be able to come up with something you can use. You don’t mention if you’re using a rhyming scheme or scansion...?
Efectivamente, parece que no había "obispa" sin berenjenas. El poema en cuestión sigue:
"Tras ella de su motivo se salian del hogar las ollas con sus legumbres, no se vió en el mundo tal; pues cogió mas berengenas en una hora sin sembrar, que un hortelano Morisco en todo el año cabal."
Y cómo no recordar a Pablos el Buscón, al que dice uno:
"Yo la tiré dos berenjenas a su madre cuando fue obispa."
Y cuando sale a caballo como rey de gallos:
"alzando zanorias garrofales, nabos frisones, tronchos y otras legumbres, empiezan a dar tras el pobre rey. Yo, viendo que era batalla nabal, y que no se había de hacer a caballo, comencé a apearme; mas tal golpe me le dieron al caballo en la cara, que, yendo a empinarse, cayó conmigo en una (hablando con perdón) privada. Púseme cual V. Md. puede imaginar."
Agradezco a ambos su tiempo y ayuda. Sin duda esta traducción ha sido un reto pero la he disfrutado a montón. Ahora creo que saldré a buscar las obras completas de Quevedo!
Es muy difícil afirmar algo definitivo en un sentido u otro. Mi criterio es el de recurrir a opiniones de expertos en la materia, que desde luego no tienen que ser definitivas. Como norma general te diré que en literatura, y Quevedo es un ejemplo paradigmático por su genialidad, refinamiento exquisito e inteligencia preclara (en ningún caso inferior a Cervantes), siempre hay margen de interpretación. Insisto en que no puedo afirmar nada concluyente. Tendría que dedicar horas al tema, leer todo el texto de Quevedo, para intentare llegar a una conclusión, que tampoco sé si sería definitiva. Ojalá este enriquecedor intercambio de ideas sirva para ayudar a Lydia (me pongo en su lugar y la admiro por lo que tiene que afrontar). Good day!
No cabe duda de que el sentido que menciona Arellano está presente, con la alusión a la alcahuetería; yo diría que es el sentido primario. Sin embargo, sigo insistiendo en la polisemia añadida que conlleva la otra acepción, que se encuentra en la época. Esto es de la tercera parte de Guzmán de Alfarache:
"esos caballeros tienen una enfermedad grande que llaman de obispar, y esa les antecipa tanto la vejez, que todos son antojos de mitra".
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
24 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +4
made a mockery of her OR killed her (untranslatable multiple wordplay)
Explanation: "Obispar" had three meanings: 1. become a bishop or make someone a bishop 2. be subjected to public mockery by being made to ride on an ass wearing a paper mitre on your head (this was done to "alcahuetas", procuresses). 3. die.
Meaning 1 is still in the DLE.
Meanings 1 and 2 are explained by John Stevens in his Spanish-English dictionary (1706):
"Obispar, to make a bishop, ironically, to be expos'd to publick shame, which is done riding on an ass with a paper cap, like a mitre on the head, answerable to our carting."
Meaning 3 is in early RAE dictionaries:
"Obispar. Vulgar y metaphoricamente se toma por morirse, y algunas veces por haber perdido alguna cosa que se tenia [...]"
"Cardenales", of course, means both cardinals and bruises.
So the primary meaning is "they gave her so many bruises that they exposed her to public shame" or "they killed her", or possibly even both. And it plays on a secondary meaning: "with so many cardinals they made her a bishop". It's extremely ingenious and quite impossible to capture in English.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 56 mins (2019-06-28 01:55:08 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I completely agree, Lydia! He is amazing; a real virtuoso with words.
Charles Davis Spain Local time: 19:30 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 296
Grading comment
Thank you!
Notes to answerer
Asker: I appreciate your invaluable input. Attempting to translate Quevedo has been both rewarding and challenging - at times near impossible! His work is simply wonderful and quite genius. It's a pity that most of the meaning and cleverness is lost in translation. Thanks again, Charles!