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Portuguese to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
Portuguese term or phrase:grito casual
Based on the source below, I'm tempted to use "shout". Anything that would be more appropriate?
"Noite de S. João para além do muro do meu quintal. Do lado de cá, eu sem noite de S. João. Porque há S. João onde o festejam. Para mim há uma sombra de luz de fogueiras na noite, Um ruído de gargalhadas, os baques dos saltos. E um grito casual de quem não sabe que eu existo." - Alberto Caeiro
Thank you, Katarina. Upon Domini's suggestion and further research on my end, I adopted your translation in part. I'm using "random shout" instead of "random scream". Thank you all. 2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
“que depende da sorte, do destino” is the reason for much of my hesitancy re “casual” in English. I find “que depende da sorte, do destino” stronger than “unplanned/by chance” and think this could be an important nuance in the Source Text. Hairsplitting to a degree, I know. Because I think poetry is also about conveying a mood. I have no issue re “casual” on one-to-one accuracy alone.
Casual - Dicio, Dicionário Online de Português https://www.dicio.com.br/casual/ Significado de Casual no Dicio, Dicionário Online de Português. O que é casual: adj. Que depende do acaso, da sorte, do destino; não planejado:
relaxed and unconcerned. synonyms: relaxed, friendly, informal, unceremonious, easygoing, free and easy; informallaid-back
made or done without much thought or premeditation. "a casual remark" synonyms: offhand, spontaneous, unpremeditated, unthinking, unconsidered, impromptu, throwaway, unguarded; informaloff-the-cuff
done or acting in a desultory way.
synonyms: cursory, perfunctory, superficial, passing, fleeting; More hasty, brief, quick
done or acting without sufficient care or thoroughness. synonyms: indifferent, apathetic, uncaring, unconcerned; More lackadaisical, blasé, nonchalant, insouciant, offhand, flippant; easygoing, free and easy, blithe, carefree, devil-may-care
You are, of course, right that, technically, the dictionary definitions of “casual” include both meanings. Having looked again I have found them in both the Oxford and Collins online dictionaries (I am not sure why the Collins didn’t flag up “by chance, without planning” for me last time). However, I still feel that, were I to read “casual cries/shouts” in an English version of this poem without the context of this discussion, my native “ear” would immediately interpret casual as “relaxed/informal” in this setting and miss the nuances that are there in the original. But that is only one native’s reaction. I have scrolled about for synonyms and still feel that, to my ear, @Katarina’s “random” renders more of the flavour of the original than casual or other options I can find. Other than that it could imply a slight “wildness”. Sorry not to be more help. Hope you had a good Christmas.
Thank you for your answers and insights. When I hear "grito casual" in PT, I think of something occasional and/or by chance. By comparing the definitions between the two languages, at first it seems like there is a one-to-one correspondence. I'm just trying to understand why "casual" would be inappropriate.
casual: Que depende do acaso; que acontece ou aconteceu sem planejamento; EVENTUAL; FORTUITO; OCASIONAL (Aulete) casual: subject to, resulting from, or occurring by chance (Merriam-Webster)
PS: Actually, it seems like the PT definition is wider in scope. Any particular word in English that conveys both meanings? (by chance + occasional)
On further reflection, for reasons already specified, I therefore think “random” conveys more of the original than “casual”. However @asker, I think “gritos” was primarily what you were asking about? I can’t say agree to “screams” as I think it adds an emotion to the original hence my “neutral” @Katarina.
am also wondering whether “cries” or “shouts” (in the plural), might flow better in English. Providing it is not adding too much to the ST. i.e. sth like “the casual cries of those who don’t know of my existence” (though I think that sentence can be improved).
In answer to your question, part of reason for my comment re “casual” is because I’m not 100% sure there is not a double meaning implied. But would need to do more research and been answering “on the fly”. Your first link mentions “que depende do acaso, da sorte, do destino” as well as “informal”. To my mind both of these might be important in the original. But I don’t see “que depende do acaso” in the English “casual” which here I think would couple “informal” with “not taking, or seeming to take much interest” (2nd meaning in Cambridge Online Dictionary). I feel that “depende do acaso...” is also there in the ST and is lost by using casual in English. However, the alliteration of “c’s” has an appeal.
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Answers
26 mins confidence:
random scream
Explanation: suggestion
Katarina Peters Canada Local time: 17:17 Meets criteria Specializes in field Native speaker of: Hungarian, English PRO pts in category: 76
Grading comment
Thank you, Katarina. Upon Domini's suggestion and further research on my end, I adopted your translation in part. I'm using "random shout" instead of "random scream". Thank you all.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 day 18 hrs (2018-12-24 12:48:14 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Casual - Dicio, Dicionário Online de Português https://www.dicio.com.br/casual/ Significado de Casual no Dicio, Dicionário Online de Português. O que é casual: adj. Que depende do acaso, da sorte, do destino; não planejado: encontro ...
Sinônimo de Casual - Sinônimos https://www.sinonimos.com.br/casual/ Sinônimos de Casual no Dicionário de Sinônimos. Casual é sinônimo de: eventual, acidental, fortuito, aleatório, inesperado, imprev ...
airmailrpl Brazil Local time: 18:17 Meets criteria Works in field Native speaker of: English, Portuguese PRO pts in category: 68
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