à la marge de l’abstraction

English translation: which borders on abstraction

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:à la marge de l’abstraction
English translation:which borders on abstraction
Entered by: Barbara Cochran, MFA

16:31 Jul 30, 2017
French to English translations [Non-PRO]
Art/Literary - Art, Arts & Crafts, Painting / Painting
French term or phrase: à la marge de l’abstraction
This phrase occurs in the transcript of an interview with a representative of the Musée d'Orsay about an exhibition of Cézanne's portraits. It occurs during a discussion of how Picasso was influenced by Cézanne:

"c’est-à-dire que Picasso est quelqu’un qui est profondément attaché au motif, qui ne… voilà… et au sujet, d’ailleurs, par la même occasion, qu’il ne franchit pas, ou en tout cas qui est ***à la marge de l’abstraction****, qu’il ne franchira jamais ce pas-là, et qui est donc extrêmement attaché à la signification des formes, à leur dessin, aussi"

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.
robgill
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:09
which borders on abstraction
Explanation:
That's how i interpret it, given the surrounding context.
Selected response from:

Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 17:09
Grading comment
Again, thank you, Barbara.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +5bordering on abstract art
Katarina Peters
3 +4verging on the abstract
Rachel Fell
3 +3which borders on abstraction
Barbara Cochran, MFA
4 -2edging towards abstraction
Lara Barnett
Summary of reference entries provided
marginalizes abstraction
José Patrício

  

Answers


8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
which borders on abstraction


Explanation:
That's how i interpret it, given the surrounding context.

Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 17:09
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Grading comment
Again, thank you, Barbara.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for your help, Barbara. Kind regards, Rob


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: You were first.
58 mins
  -> Thank you, phil.

agree  David Vaughn: I think this will work better for the rest of the phrase if we talk about "on the border of" or another NOUN that Picasso never crosses
2 hrs
  -> Thanks David.

agree  Yolanda Broad
10 hrs
  -> Thank you, Yolanda.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -2
edging towards abstraction


Explanation:
Possibly another option.

http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/edge_2

The idea is that the artist's words were leaning towards an abstract style.



Example sentence(s):
  • "Each iteration of it moves away from representation towards pure color, EDGING TOWARDS ABSTRACTION."
  • " Pollock is EDGING TOWARDS ABSTRACTION with nods to Picasso, Surrealism, and Dada along the way."

    Reference: http://www.vdrome.org/ben-fain-a-holy-order
    https://molapola.com/2016/02/08/mola-takes-moma-pt-i/
Lara Barnett
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
2 corroborated select projects
in this pair and field What is ProZ.com Project History(SM)?
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for your help, Lara. Kind regards, Rob


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tony M: But in the extract of s/t as given, there is no notion of "progression": "moving towards" is not the same as "standing next to". / Whatever, it is the 'edging towards' that I can't agree with. Not a bit the same as "sitting on the border"
25 mins
  -> I meant the actual style is that of one that edges towards an abstract one.

disagree  Daryo: in this ST the idea is that it (the painter's style) stayed outside, just on the margins/border - nothing said about how it got there, nor about any tendency to cross that border
57 mins
  -> When a style is "edging towards" something it means that the piece of work is sitting on the border. I did not say anything about how it got anywhere.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +4
verging on the abstract


Explanation:
or verging on abstraction, which verges on... etc.

Through the 20s, the painter's works, after verging on the abstract, grew more representative and lyrical. As Picasso was discovering simultaneously, Cubism in its purest form had its creative limitations.
http://www.abcgallery.com/B/braque/braquebio.html

Instead she has chosen two unpeopled landscapes, verging on the abstract, from the unique group made by Degas c. 1890.
http://archive.spectator.co.uk/article/20th-may-1995/47/exhi...

Thus, the movement’s development from 1910 to 1912 is often referred to as Analytical Cubism. After verging on abstraction and hermetism, the artists reintroduced readable signs, particularly by introducing everyday objects, newspaper and papier collé to the canvas, steering Cubism towards an aesthetic reflection on the different levels of reference to reality.
http://mediation.centrepompidou.fr/education/ressources/ENS-...


Rachel Fell
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:09
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for your help, Rachel. Kind regards, Rob


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: You know, that was the very first idea that sprang to my mind too! I'm glad someone else had it too :-)
6 mins
  -> Thank you Tony :-)

agree  writeaway: better late than never. you were fourth
1 hr
  -> Yes, thank you writeaway! :-)

agree  Yolanda Broad
6 hrs
  -> Thank you Yolanda :-)

agree  katsy
1 day 1 hr
  -> Thank you Katsy :-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
bordering on abstract art


Explanation:
in other words.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2017-07-30 17:11:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Bordering on the abstract - is what I really meant, as noted below in my comment to Tony.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2017-07-31 11:36:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Always glad to help, Rob.

Katarina Peters
Canada
Local time: 17:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16
Notes to answerer
Asker: Many thanks for your help, Katarina. Kind regards, Rob


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Though I think as we're very obviosuly talking about 'art', it should not be repeated here; and you might do better with 'bordering on the abstract' / If they are reading this, they will be familiar enough; risks appearing naïve.
7 mins
  -> Thanks, Tony, initially I wanted to post just as you say, bordering on the abstract ! But I took into consideration people who are not too familiar with art terms...// yes, Tony, I agree with you...

neutral  philgoddard: As in the French, "art" goes without saying.
51 mins
  -> OK, so did you read Tony's comments and my response and added note?

agree  writeaway: You were second.
1 hr
  -> Thank you writeaway. That's why I said "in other words", not the same as Barbara's.

agree  Jennifer White: agree with "bordering on the abstract"
1 hr
  -> Thank you Jennifer!

agree  Daryo
1 hr
  -> Thank you, Daryo!

agree  Yolanda Broad
19 hrs
  -> Thank you, Yolanda.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


27 mins peer agreement (net): -2
Reference: marginalizes abstraction

Reference information:
S’il est attaché au motif, et au sujet, d’ailleurs, par la même occasion, qu’il ne franchit pas (qui ne laisse), qui est donc extrêmement attaché à la signification des formes, à leur dessin, aussi", c’est évident qu’il est à la marge de l’abstraction (abstraction is not son style)
Monet and abstraction is presented at the Musée Marmottan - http://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?source=auto&qu...
In class: Introduction to abstraction, symbolisation, signalling, beginning industrial drawing. - http://www.linguee.fr/francais-anglais/search?source=auto&qu...

José Patrício
Portugal
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
disagree  Tony M: But the source text does not in any way state that he 'marginalizes' it! Being 'on the margin of' is not at all the same as the verb 'to marginalize'
4 mins
disagree  writeaway: Linguee can be helpful at times but it's like a minefield. It's no good just copy/pasting a Linguee reference without personal knowledge
56 mins
  -> connotation: en connaissant Picasso nous savons qu'il est à la marge mais... il était en train d'entrer dans la peinture abstact. Merci par l'observation.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search