This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
  1. KudoZ™ Top
  2. French to English
  3. Archaeology

assiette

English translation: site

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:assiette
English translation:site
Entered by: Charles Davis

09:40 May 25, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Archaeology / Les défenses du port ott
French term or phrase: assiette
Sa défense interne est structurée en deux entités : l’une linéaire, l’autre ponctuelle.

La première est formée par les nouveaux et imposants remparts, ponctués de bastions et percés de portes, cernant la ville et élargissant son emprise sur les collines.

La seconde est composée de deux éléments majeurs de défense, situés diamétralement opposés aux angles du trapèze de son assiette, formé sur la pente des coteaux.
Hazel Le Goff
Local time: 11:18
site
Explanation:
I think it's simply this. "Port ott" is presumably a truncated version of the heading of your last question, "Les défenses du port ottoman d’Alger. (1530-1830)":
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/archaeology/6332...

So we're talking about Algiers in the Ottoman period.

The trapezium refers to the old town of Algiers itself; the following is a translation of a description by Théophile Gautier, which must date from not many decades after it passed from Ottoman to French rule:

"A whitish blur, cut into a trapezium, and dotted with silver sparkles—each one of them a country house—began to be drawn against the dark hills: this is Algiers, Al-Djezair, as the Arabs call it. We approach; around the trapezium, two ocre-colored ravines define the lower edges of the slopes, and shimmer with such a lively light that they seem as though they are ends to two sun torrents: these are the trenches. The walls, strangely crenellated, ascend the height of the slope."
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft8c600...

This same source says: "The term casbah refers to the ancient core of Algiers, the triangular-shaped town carved into the hills facing the Mediterranean (Fig. 2)."

But the plan shows that it is not a triangle but a trapezium: a triangle with the point chopped off, as it were. It's the area marked (1):
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft8c600...

So "son assiette" means the "assiette" of the town of Algiers. And the "assiette" of a town is the same as its "emplacement": its site.

"Assiette (n.f) viendrait de l'ancien français “siet” qui lui est lui même dérivé du latin “situs” qui signifie situé. On parle donc de l'assiette d'une ville pour parler de son emplacement topographique"
http://brouillaminiscribbles.tumblr.com/post/64102944307/ass...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2017-05-25 17:50:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Is your text pre-twentieth century? I am pretty sure the sense of "assiette" is the one I've suggested, but it may be a bit archaic. It's not present as such in the Trésor, which Nikki has cited, but it is definition 2 of assiette in Littré:

"Position topographique d'une maison, d'une ville, etc. Assiette d'un lieu. Cette ville a une assiette favorable. Choisir l'assiette du camp."
https://www.littre.org/definition/assiette

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2017-05-26 07:09:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The meaning of "assiette" I'm proposing is actually still current. It is meaning 3 in the current (9th) edition of the Academy dictionary:

"3. Emplacement servant de base à une construction. L'assiette d'un camp, d'un château, d'une ville. TECHN. L'assiette d'une voie ferrée, d'une route, la surface occupée par cette voie, cette route et leurs parties accessoires."
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/generic/cherche.exe?15...

I think "site" is the natural translation for this, potentially embracing both the position and the terrain.

This goes right back to the first Academy dictionary (1694):

"Il se dit aussi de la situation d'une maison, d'une ville, d'une forteresse. Cette maison est en belle assiette. l'assiette de cette place est avantageuse."
http://artflx.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/dicos/pubdico1look.pl?str...

Have a look at the way "assiette" is used in this article from Viollet-Le-Duc's Dictionnaire raisonné de l’architecture française du XIe au XVIe siècle (1854-68):
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionnaire_raisonné_de_l’ar...
Selected response from:

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 12:18
Grading comment
Although originally I was tempted to use the 'basic layout' answer suggested, I am going to choose this suggestion. The context of all your suggestions does fit in with the article. Many thanks for the in-depth suggestions and the very apt sources. Most grateful.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1footprint
B D Finch
4site
Charles Davis
3way x is lying, angle of lie,
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
2 +1basic layout
Tony M


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
footprint


Explanation:
That's the usual translation of "assiette" in this sort of context. It isn't the same as "site" because it means the land actually under the built structure(s) and its shape.

projects.nexus-heritage.com/en/project/802/
An Archaeological Assessment. ... within the footprint of the Roman legionary fortress in Chester triggered the need for an archaeological assessment taking into ...

http://www.dayofarchaeology.com/gearing-up-for-public-archae...
https://goo.gl/ywTxll
This program, co-run by Parks Canada and the Fortress Louisbourg Association, allows us to continue excavation within the footprint of the reconstructed site while giving archaeology enthusiasts an opportunity to work on a dig at a great site and learn about historical archaeology.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2017-05-25 18:53:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The term "footprint" is also used for the built-up area of a town, as well as for individual buildings or complexes of buildings.

dro.deakin.edu.au/view/DU:30083484
brutontowncouncil.gov.uk/policies/planning-policy/It is probable that meeting this target will extend the footprint of the town into land that is traditionally seen as agricultural.

https://www.westsussex.gov.uk/media/2105/crowborough_eus_rep... of the pre-1939 footprint of the town. A clearer example of post-1945 development within an open space almost entirely surrounded by the earlier town ...

B D Finch
France
Local time: 12:18
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 39
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think I agree with Charles on this. Also, I have translated a later occurrence of 'emprise' as 'footprint' in the following sentence: Ce môle qui au XVIIIe siècle faisait 500 pas de long, est renforcé par un autre de même emprise, allant du nord au sud et couvrant le port.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, which brings us back to the notion of 'emprise'.
27 mins
  -> Thanks Tony
neutral  Charles Davis: In archaeology, "footprint" is the area formerly occupied by something that is no longer there (as in both your examples). The town planning usage is out of place here. And "site" means the land on which something is built.
1 hr
  -> Do you have support for that? I understand "footprint" as being more precise, while "site" is more vague and can be the whole area owned or searched, with boundaries defined somewhat arbitrarily.
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: I follow Charles on this one.
3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
way x is lying, angle of lie,


Explanation:
"...diamétralement opposés aux angles du trapèze de son assiette, formé sur la pente des coteaux."

I know this term from a marine context, where it describes the way a boat sits in the water, how level it is in relation to 180°. You probably know the term "trim"; that is "assiette" in French marine speak. I think the term is used in aeronautical contexts too. Only a small stpe from there to the EN flat, plate and the FR plat and assiette!




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-05-25 13:42:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

no idea what "port ott" means though, so I am fumbling to get the context here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-05-25 13:44:47 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am fairly confident though that it is this rather ordinary meaning of "assiette", given that there is the "trapèze" and "angles".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-05-25 13:45:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This dictionary entry could probably help.

http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/assiette

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2017-05-25 13:46:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Think of the tax office and the meaning of "assiette" there too, which is about the base. ;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2017-05-25 18:13:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"Assiette" is not really about layout. It is about how elements fit together, about how an element "sits". (Ass(iette), ass(eoir), ass... tiens!)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2017-05-25 18:14:42 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Sorry, not "not really", I should say "not just" about layout.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2017-05-25 22:04:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Inspired by Charles' post, I've just checked the CNRTL for "site": http://www.cnrtl.fr/lexicographie/site

Very near towards the end of the entry, is this text:

"1708 site (De Piles, Cours de peinture, p. 205 ds Fonds Barbier: Le mot de site signifie la vûe, la situation et l'assiette d'une contrée. Il vient de l'Italien sito, et nos peintres l'ont fait passer en France). I empr. au lat. situs « emplacement, situation », dér. de sinere « poser, installer ». II prob. empr. à l'ital. sito « situation, lieu » (dep. 1313-19, Dante ds Tomm.-Bell.)."



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2017-05-25 22:16:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Interesting document where the first two uses of "assiette" seem to refer to "site", or something close: http://www.inrap.fr/sites/inrap.fr/files/atoms/files/inrap-g...

Institut national de recherches archéologiques préventives (INRAP).
Guide pratique de l'aménageur.
L’aménagement du territoire et l’archéologie.

On the matter of "diagnostic archéologique":
(Page 3)
"Toutefois, la prescription de diagnostic n’est pas systématique : les travaux projetés peuvent ne présenter aucune atteinte notable au patrimoine connu ou présumé ; l’aménageur peut également procéder à des modifications (assiette du projet, aménagement technique) afin de rendre compatible sa réalisation avec la sauvegarde du patrimoine archéologique".

The following two uses seem to be to do with basis for the calculation of a payment.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 12:18
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 35

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Tony M: CD has got it, "port ott(oman" is just truncated. I think 'assiette' here has basically the same meanins as 'emprise', also used. But I think your suggestion is slightly more awkward to work into the structure with 'trapeze' etc.
1 hr
  -> Thank you Tony. Without the capital letters, I didn't get it. I don't see how "emprise" fits here but I agree that with "trapèze" it is not that easy.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
site


Explanation:
I think it's simply this. "Port ott" is presumably a truncated version of the heading of your last question, "Les défenses du port ottoman d’Alger. (1530-1830)":
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/french_to_english/archaeology/6332...

So we're talking about Algiers in the Ottoman period.

The trapezium refers to the old town of Algiers itself; the following is a translation of a description by Théophile Gautier, which must date from not many decades after it passed from Ottoman to French rule:

"A whitish blur, cut into a trapezium, and dotted with silver sparkles—each one of them a country house—began to be drawn against the dark hills: this is Algiers, Al-Djezair, as the Arabs call it. We approach; around the trapezium, two ocre-colored ravines define the lower edges of the slopes, and shimmer with such a lively light that they seem as though they are ends to two sun torrents: these are the trenches. The walls, strangely crenellated, ascend the height of the slope."
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft8c600...

This same source says: "The term casbah refers to the ancient core of Algiers, the triangular-shaped town carved into the hills facing the Mediterranean (Fig. 2)."

But the plan shows that it is not a triangle but a trapezium: a triangle with the point chopped off, as it were. It's the area marked (1):
http://publishing.cdlib.org/ucpressebooks/view?docId=ft8c600...

So "son assiette" means the "assiette" of the town of Algiers. And the "assiette" of a town is the same as its "emplacement": its site.

"Assiette (n.f) viendrait de l'ancien français “siet” qui lui est lui même dérivé du latin “situs” qui signifie situé. On parle donc de l'assiette d'une ville pour parler de son emplacement topographique"
http://brouillaminiscribbles.tumblr.com/post/64102944307/ass...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2017-05-25 17:50:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Is your text pre-twentieth century? I am pretty sure the sense of "assiette" is the one I've suggested, but it may be a bit archaic. It's not present as such in the Trésor, which Nikki has cited, but it is definition 2 of assiette in Littré:

"Position topographique d'une maison, d'une ville, etc. Assiette d'un lieu. Cette ville a une assiette favorable. Choisir l'assiette du camp."
https://www.littre.org/definition/assiette

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 21 hrs (2017-05-26 07:09:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The meaning of "assiette" I'm proposing is actually still current. It is meaning 3 in the current (9th) edition of the Academy dictionary:

"3. Emplacement servant de base à une construction. L'assiette d'un camp, d'un château, d'une ville. TECHN. L'assiette d'une voie ferrée, d'une route, la surface occupée par cette voie, cette route et leurs parties accessoires."
http://atilf.atilf.fr/dendien/scripts/generic/cherche.exe?15...

I think "site" is the natural translation for this, potentially embracing both the position and the terrain.

This goes right back to the first Academy dictionary (1694):

"Il se dit aussi de la situation d'une maison, d'une ville, d'une forteresse. Cette maison est en belle assiette. l'assiette de cette place est avantageuse."
http://artflx.uchicago.edu/cgi-bin/dicos/pubdico1look.pl?str...

Have a look at the way "assiette" is used in this article from Viollet-Le-Duc's Dictionnaire raisonné de l’architecture française du XIe au XVIe siècle (1854-68):
https://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Dictionnaire_raisonné_de_l’ar...


Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 12:18
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 52
Grading comment
Although originally I was tempted to use the 'basic layout' answer suggested, I am going to choose this suggestion. The context of all your suggestions does fit in with the article. Many thanks for the in-depth suggestions and the very apt sources. Most grateful.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: This could become an agree. It is in the etymology of the term. I had not noticed your post and have just added a line on words with "ass" (included "ass"). ;-) Also "siège" for "seat" (same sound as FR "site"). (Champagne, - aigne, Despaigne, -agne).
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Nikki. I think it may depend on the date of the text.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

59 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
basic layout


Explanation:
I don't know if there is a proper technical term here, but I'd have thought something like this might possibly work?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 jour33 minutes (2017-05-26 10:14:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think you're wise, Hazel — for one thing, 'base' on its own could be misleading, tending to make one think of some physical, structural component (which this clearly is not!)

Tony M
France
Local time: 12:18
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 96
Notes to answerer
Asker: I had translated it simply as 'base', but I am veering towards your 'basic layout', which even if there is a more technical term, still conveys the meaning.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard: Or shape.
3 hrs
  -> Thanks, Phil!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:
ProZ.com term search
Search millions of term translations
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search