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The Legifrance standard is reasonable to quite good, in my book, the CNIL website is quite shocking, so I can't disagree with that. I guess we can both agree that governments and government agencies should get translation done properly or not get it done at all. With most countries, of course, there is no obligation at all to get official texts translated into English. Canada's Grand Dictionnaire, for obvious reasons, stands out from the crowd, as do most bilingual Canadian Government websites.
Well, the web is crammed with "official" translations into English from all over the globe. Leaving out those that emanate from EN-spkg countries, just take a look at some of them (for example some the translations of French legislation on Legifrance) and you will see that the standard is highly variable....
Bureau de terminologie ACH - Administration fédérale suisse Collection terminologique LFT95 - Terminologie de la législation relative à l'aviation civile Statut de la fiche Fiche validée Code de fiabilité 3 - Fiche contrôlée linguistiquement Domaines TR8 - TRANSPORTS AÉRIENS ; TVA - DURÉE DU TRAVAIL - VACANCES DES TRAVAILLEURS Français Terme jour férié Abréviation HOL Anglais Terme holiday Abréviation HOL
Bureau de terminologie ACH - Administration fédérale suisse Collection terminologique INI16 - Titres des initiatives populaires fédérales Statut de la fiche Fiche validée Code de fiabilité 4 - Fiche contrôlée par les experts Domaines JU4 - HISTOIRE ET SOURCES DU DROIT ; JUK - DROIT DU TRAVAIL - DROIT DES FONCTIONNAIRES ; TVA - DURÉE DU TRAVAIL - VACANCES DES TRAVAILLEURS Français Appellation Initiative populaire fédérale «pour un jour de la fête nationale férié (Initiative "1er août")» Notes STA: accepté lors de la votation populaire du 26 septembre 1993 Appellation Initiative "1er août" Anglais Remarque Pas d'équivalent
I think that we as translators must translate what is in the author's mind, and in the author's mind here there is a clear distinction made -- rightly or wrongly -- between "jours fériés" and "jours de fête". The translation must reflect this. Now, I don't deny the right of people from a less religious background than myself, or living in less religious countries, to subsume "jours de fête" into "public holidays". Translation is about making choices, and my personal choice in this instance was not to do so. And lastly, another ground for the subsuming choice would be to say that the expression is the result of sloppy thinking and writing and to correct it, but that is not our job as translators.
newatlas.com/the-chariot--historys-first-personal-transport-concept/10123 Chariot racing was invariably a free public event as it occurred on public holidays and religious festivals and it no doubt looked very enticing ...
Christian countries do indeed celebrate feast days and some of these are holidays (origin of word: holy days) but the fact is that virtually every country now refers to days (other than weekends) when e.g. government offices and banks close, as public holidays. In my diary I have a list of public holidays for 15 different countries. Among them are holidays with a religious origin (obviously Christmas and Easter) but also secular holidays, which nobody is going to call "feast days"
"Le Jeûne genevois est un jour férié propre au canton de Genève qui est célébré le jeudi suivant le premier dimanche de septembre.
Le 31 décembre est aussi un autre jour férié propre au canton de Genève. C'est l'anniversaire de la Restauration de la République décrétée en 1813 après l'épisode napoléonien."
I will leave you to continue the debate if you so wish.
It's ok, the Canton de Genève has cleared things up for us: https://www.google.co.uk/?gws_rd=ssl#q="jours de fete dans l... I apologise to anybody I might have offended, but if you take my opinions that seriously, then well, you are a sensitive soul indeed.
I think 'feast days' was a most inappropriate solution here! It might be applicable for, say, a tourist text describing the colourful pageants typically held on feast days in this or that 'quaintly foreign' country; but it is anachronism in a business context in a modern European country, where any connection between 'days off' and religious 'feast days' has almost entirely been lost...
Every single answer mentions public holiday and that is what "jour de fête" is not, by definition, as that concept is covered by "jour férié". One could claim that there is some overlap, I take the view that there is not. My background perhaps colours my view. One only has to read Joyce to get a good fill of feast days.
You may have chosen something else, which you have every right to do and can even enter it in the glossary, but to insult everyone by calling all other answers 'unacceptable' is downright insulting. The other answers are more than acceptable, just not to you.
"Feast days" was what I used. "Jours fériés" covers all the answers posted. Thanks to all for the lively and interesting debate. And I was never sitting on the fence, for for the record, I've been busy.
Page d'aide sur l'homonymie Pour les articles homonymes, voir Fête (homonymie). Le centenaire de l'indépendance, la représentation d'une fête populaire en France par le douanier Rousseau (1892).
Une fête est une période de réjouissance collective destinée à célébrer quelque chose ou quelqu'un. Une fête est limitée dans le temps : il n'y a pas de fête solitaire ; les funérailles ne sont pas considérées comme une fête ; lorsque l'objet de la fête perd de sa motivation, celle-ci peut devenir un devoir ou une obligation sociale. Il y a des fêtes publiques, qui engagent une société toute entière et des fêtes privées limitées à une famille, à une corporation, à des clients, etc.
Étymologie : du latin festa dies, jour de fête. Famille du mot : festif, férié, festin, festoyer, fêtard…
La plupart des fêtes publiques occidentales sont d'origine chrétienne, ou des fêtes plus anciennes que le christianisme a assimilées ; certaines fêtes sont d'origine civile. La tradition laïque a introduit le terme de jour férié pour désigner les jours de fêtes publiques reconnus par la loi, qu'ils soient d'origine chrétienne ou non.
L'héortologie est la discipline des sciences humaines qui étudie l
As someone who grew up in Ireland in the 1980s and who was educated in a Convent for a few years, "feast days" seems entirely natural to me. Not that I see I see a need for it for them in 2017, that being said. This is clearly an example of foggy writing in the French and the translation will naturally reflect the fogginess created.
And I agree. I have no idea whether any of the hypotheses I've outlined about "fêtes" that are not "fériés" are legally possible or apply in this case. Tautologies do occur and this may quite well be one. Or maybe whoever wrote this is a religious person who distinguishes between "fêtes" (e.g. Easter Day) and religious "jours fériés" (e.g. Good Friday and Easter Monday), as the Diocese of Sion does: http://www.cath-vs.ch/wp-content/uploads/2016/pdf/150601-ISj...
Who can say? The only reasonable course here is to settle for "public holidays" for both terms and leave it at that.
I don't find that interpretation plausible. The only non-working days that are not public holidays are weekends. Using "jours fériés" to mean weekends and "jours de fête" to refer to "jours fériés" that fall on weekdays would be a very strange usage, in my opinion. "Férié" is not normally a synonym of "non ouvré" (as the Swiss put it). Saturdays and Sundays are not strictly fériés unless they are (if you see what I mean).
And in that case, what would be the point? "Lundi au vendredi de 8h30 à 19h00 hors jours fériés" is a tautology if "jours fériés" means weekends.
The text you quoted does no more than show that in the title of a law "jours de fête" is used to mean "public holidays" (Feiertagen). Other examples in which "jours de fête" has this meaning can be quoted. The title would have exactly the same meaning if "jours fériés" had been used instead. This doesn't address the issue of whether or not the terms are synonymous in this particular context.
that jour ferié in this case would be a non-working day (Sunday for example) and that the term actually asked would be public holiday. That is what is stated more clearly in the official German version of a legal text I posted in my ref
You're welcome, though not much had been said about what "fête" actually means and how it can be said in English, apart from the latest exchange between Conor and Allegro. I don't think this is entirely straightforward.
Nor has it really been considered why, if these two terms are synonymous, both have been used. It's one thing to use them interchangeably and another to use them both at once. That's what inspired my latest contribution.
It is striking that both terms have been used where, by these arguments, just the first would have been enough. Is it definitely a tautology? The only way it might not be is if there are "jours de fêtes", on which the offices do not open, that are not "jours fériés". This is not inconceivable. As has been said, apart from 1 August each canton sets its own list of jours fériés. So there are inevitably fêtes that are not jours fériés in some cantons. In some cases they are "jours chômés", but by no means always. Take La Toussaint, for example: it's férié in 13 cantons but a working day in the other 13. Suppose our text is from one of the latter. Could it conceivably mean that they close on Toussaint (fête but not férié) as well, for example? Same goes for the Assumption (férié in 8 of the 26 cantons). And it's not just the religious ones; 1 May (Fête du Travail) is férié in 8 cantons, chômé in 1 and a working day in the other 17. Here's the list: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jours_fériés_en_Suisse
Or might "jours fêtes" refer here to fêtes that are jours chômés but not fériés (i.e. public holidays and other non-working jours de fêtes)?
I did some research on this yesterday, and came to the conclusion that you should use "public holidays" here to cover both terms.
In principle, there is a difference. "Jours fériés" are public holidays and "jour de fêtes" are "feast days", but as AT points out the "feasts" can be secular as well as religious, and calling the secular ones "feast days" sounds very unnatural in English. There can, in principle, be "jours de fêtes" that are not public holidays; any saint's day is a "fête". The real question in principle is that a "jour de fête" is the actual day on which something is celebrated, whereas "jours fériés" are days officially designated as non-working days, for whatever reason. Not all of them are strictly "fêtes".
But it seems quite implausible that these offices close on all and any of the "feast days" in the Church (or any other) calendar; it must refer only to those that are "fériés". And in practice the terms are not reliably distinguished. In many official Swiss documents on the subject they are used interchangeably. In another context, where both are used in clearly different senses, a solution might have to be found, but here, fortunately, there's no need.
Some of the public holidays in Switzerland are "feast days" in the religious sense, others are purely secular, e.g. International Labour Day on 1 May, Swiss Federal Day on 17 September and National Day on 1 August. I also speak as someone who has been an expat in Europe, where all English speakers (from GB, Irl, USA, Canada etc.) invariably used the term "public holiday"
Following AllegroTrans' post, my conclusion is that the right translation is "feast days". The expression "feast days and holy days of obligation" comes to mind, so the concept is a religious one.
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Answers
6 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
Bank holidays
Explanation: General term used in English for any 'official' not working day
Etienne Muylle Wallace Spain Local time: 12:22 Specializes in field Native speaker of: Dutch, French PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Bank holiday translates to "jour férié", shorthand for a public holiday. Also "bank holiday" is deceptive in France, because many bank branches open on Saturdays but are closed on Mondays.
peer agreement (net): +2
