croûte d'oxydation

English translation: layer of oxidation

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:croûte d\'oxydation
English translation:layer of oxidation
Entered by: angela3thomas

22:09 Feb 25, 2017
French to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Archaeology / Metal artifacts
French term or phrase: croûte d'oxydation
Hello!
DOC: 1907 Museum catalog of ancient Egyptian mirrors - The catalog entries.
CONTEXT: Mirror of yellow copper or brass & ivory. CONSERVATION. Disque: patine bistrée avec des ***croûtes d'oxydation***. La tige ou soie manque. Pour remonter la pièce, on a rapporté, de nos jours, une tige de cuivre. -- Manche: jauni et maculé de bitume. La matière est éclatée et fendue par endroits.
IN THE SINGULAR: CONSERVATION. Disque intact, mais couvert d'une ***croûte d'oxydation***. -- Manche légèrement fendillé.
ATTEMPT: PRESERVATION. Disk: greyish-brown/bister-colored patina with ***oxidation crusts/layers?**. The tang or stem is missing. To reassemble the piece, a copper tang was recently added. -- Handle: yellowed and stained with bitumen. The material/fabric is ruptured?/pitted? and cracked/split in some places.
ISSUE: Unsure if this is the correct term as, in Googling, I seem to only find oxidation crusts in geological contexts. I also searched for crusts of oxidation but that's extremely rare. Some of my confusion seems to be explained quite nicely in this Getty Museum article: Chemists use the terms “corrosion” and “corrosion products” to describe the salts and oxides that form during burial or long atmospheric exposure, while mineralogists prefer to call them “mineral alteration products.” Patina, however, is a good term even if it implies artistic enhancement by corrosion, which is not always the case. Patina...connotes not merely a specific color but also a continuous surface layer of measurable thickness.... For convenience and because of its wide acceptance by collectors, we will often employ the term patina; but in purely technical discussions, we will speak as a chemist of corrosion and corrosion products. Often the collectors’ interest in ancient bronzes is quickened by the colored corrosion products or patina of their surfaces. The term patina...was used originally to describe the green, blue and red corrosion products of copper and bronze, but by extension is now used to describe any surface on wood, ivory, or marble or other materials resulting from age and exposure. With a mirror or a black sword, there is an “as cast” condition, a finished (polished) condition, a patinated condition, and the condition after use. In fact, mirrors that were in use underwent constant repolishing.
Does anyone actual know what this phrase means as my author uses it in so many of his catalog entries?
Thank you in advance!
angela3thomas
United States
layer of oxidation
Explanation:
I don't think that one would use "crust" here and "scab" seems completely wrong. Even the most "scab"-like form of oxidation, rust, wouldn't be described that way and, obviously, this is not rust.

www.catastrophism.com/intro/search.cgi?zoom_query...zoom...... results - Geological and archaeological dating are achieved by the penetration of .... found that a layer of oxidation covered the incisions, suggesting that ...

https://www.cambridge.org/.../evaluating-swords-introduction...
by C Sanft - ‎2016 - ‎Related articles
11 May 2016 - from the Han structures there was the first part of this archaeological ..... a layer of oxidation with a spotty appearance, which developed on the.

https://sha.org/conservation-facts/faq/handling-artifacts/Ph... used by permission of the Maryland Archaeological Conservation ..... appear unaltered, but may be worn slightly and covered in a thin layer of oxidation.
Selected response from:

B D Finch
France
Local time: 21:03
Grading comment
Thank you all. I've been delaying selecting the answer because I think both oxidized crust and layer of oxidation are both solid answers and correct.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +1layer of oxidation
B D Finch
4 +1oxidized crust
philgoddard
4a dark brown patina, with patches of a heavier encrustation of oxidation
Christopher Crockett
Summary of reference entries provided
scabs of oxidised metal
José Patrício

Discussion entries: 9





  

Answers


20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
croûte d\'oxydation
layer of oxidation


Explanation:
I don't think that one would use "crust" here and "scab" seems completely wrong. Even the most "scab"-like form of oxidation, rust, wouldn't be described that way and, obviously, this is not rust.

www.catastrophism.com/intro/search.cgi?zoom_query...zoom...... results - Geological and archaeological dating are achieved by the penetration of .... found that a layer of oxidation covered the incisions, suggesting that ...

https://www.cambridge.org/.../evaluating-swords-introduction...
by C Sanft - ‎2016 - ‎Related articles
11 May 2016 - from the Han structures there was the first part of this archaeological ..... a layer of oxidation with a spotty appearance, which developed on the.

https://sha.org/conservation-facts/faq/handling-artifacts/Ph... used by permission of the Maryland Archaeological Conservation ..... appear unaltered, but may be worn slightly and covered in a thin layer of oxidation.

B D Finch
France
Local time: 21:03
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 39
Grading comment
Thank you all. I've been delaying selecting the answer because I think both oxidized crust and layer of oxidation are both solid answers and correct.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tony M: Yes, and if it is discontinuous, one could use, for example, 'patches of...'
17 mins
  -> Thanks Tony.

neutral  Charles Davis: I'm doubtful about this, because a layer of oxidation describes a patina, which is a very different matter. I think "croûte" implies an incrustation or accretion.
25 mins
  -> Would the oxidation of copper or brass produce "an incrustation or accretion"?// Given your references in the Discussion, I think you're right about "crust".

neutral  Christopher Crockett: Clearly, we're dealing with both a heavy ("normal") patina and ["avec"] something much thicker --and, apparently, rougher and less uniformly spread. Technically, it's *all* the result of oxidation, but some oxidations are more equal than others.
18 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day 15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
croûte d\'oxydation
oxidized crust


Explanation:
Or crust of oxidation.
See the discussion entries. The author has chosen a specific word that makes perfect sense and has an exact English equivalent, and I feel we should respect that.

philgoddard
United States
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 52

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Christopher Crockett: I'll agree, but pique a knit: technically (what else matters, style?), the crust is not oxidized --it's the result of the oxidation of the copper in the bronze. "Crust of oxidized bronze" works.
23 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day 15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
croûte d\'oxydation
a dark brown patina, with patches of a heavier encrustation of oxidation


Explanation:
"The disk is intact, with a dark brown patina, and patches of a heavier encrustation of oxidation."

Clearly, we're dealing with both a heavy patina --of the more or less smooth sort which might be expected on a 3,000 year old bronze object-- as well as ["avec"] patches of a much thicker encrustation --apparently much rougher and less uniformly spread across the surface.

Technically, it's *all* the result of oxidation, the variation perhaps due to inconsistencies and impurities inherent in the copper/bronze(?).

(Though "bistre/bister" does show up in the Definitive OED, I've never seen the word used in English and would prefer to just go with "dark brown" here.)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day18 hrs (2017-02-27 16:24:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Thinking about it a bit further, it seems to me that the kind of serious corrosion/encrustation (in addition to the relatively minor patina caused by oxidation over time) we might be looking at here is more common in copper objects than bronze ones --though one of the good books which Phil found might be more enlightening than my own skimpy knowledge.

If my speculation is indeed true (weirder stuff has happened), then the variation in the results of oxidation across the surface of the disk might be attributed to slight variations in the consistency of the percentages of the various metals used (copper, tin, zinc) --variations which were due to, for instance, the lack of iron for a proper crucible to melt (and mix) the composite metals in, ultimately resulting in a lack of homogeneity in the molten bronze.

E.g., I'm assuming that only stone crucibles were used, which might not have been able to have been brought to as high a temperature in the kiln as iron ones were (later) able to take.

But, I'm "just speculating about a hypothesis," blissfully ignorant of any actual knowledge of the subject.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 day18 hrs (2017-02-27 16:34:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Obviously, the "encrustation" is the *result* of oxidation, rather than being made up of oxidation.

"...with patches of a heavier encrustation of oxidized elements" is much more better.

Sorry for the confusion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 days14 hrs (2017-02-28 13:03:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Turns out that the good links to technical books were courtesy of Charles, not Phil. Sorry, Charles.

Christopher Crockett
Local time: 16:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 131

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: Agreed, but having two words ending in -ation is a bit awkward. // So by your reasoning, "creation of an encrustation of oxidation" would be even better :-)
15 mins
  -> An "encrustation of oxidation" is a Dog that Won't Hunt. My "encrustation of oxidized elements" was an attempt to placate your Assonance Phobia--which has the added advantage of eliminating the nonsense of my"encrustation of oxidation." The attempt failed
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


1 hr peer agreement (net): -1
Reference: scabs of oxidised metal

Reference information:
scabs of oxidised metal - https://forum.wordreference.com/threads/croûtes-doxydation.3...

José Patrício
Portugal
Native speaker of: Native in PortuguesePortuguese

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
neutral  Cornelius Gillen: oxidised crust
9 hrs
  -> OK
disagree  Tony M: I don't think 'scab' is at all natural in EN used like this.
19 hrs
  -> It depends, scab like. f. e. Sheep scab, a skin disease of sheep caused by the mite Psoroptes ovis
neutral  Christopher Crockett: While I suppose that what is meant by "scabs" is clear enough, that word is never applied in a technical situation like this and smacks of an informality which is not appropriate in this formal, academic context.
1 day 14 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.


See also:
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search