avoir été à la cour

English translation: was in and out of court between the ages of 9 and 16

23:35 Aug 30, 2016
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / medical, psychology
French term or phrase: avoir été à la cour
I'm translating a psychiatry report, and I have no idea what "à la cour" means in the following sentence: "Elle me rapporte [...] avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans". I know "à la cour" can mean "at court" or "at the playground", but for me, neither makes sense in the context. Perhaps it's a typo and it should be "à la cœur" instead?

Here's the entire paragraph:

Ses parents se seraient séparés alors qu’elle avait 3 ans. Elle me rapporte une discorde constante et avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans. Elle me décrira alors une certaine instabilité émotive chez ses parents, et un manque de validation émotive; elle me dira s’être en quelque sorte coupée de ses émotions et présente même des symptômes de dissociation durant plusieurs périodes de 9 à 16 ans. Tel que mentionné ci-haut, elle présente des traits de personnalité limites caractéristiques, et ce s’étant développés au courant de l’adolescence.
Paul Jones
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:53
English translation:was in and out of court between the ages of 9 and 16
Explanation:
I've expressed my suggestion in an extended section of the phrase.
No mention is being made of any arrest. It is about her having been in and out of court, or at least of having had that impression, during the span of years referred to.
It is in a section of the report where the patient describes her parents as being/having been in constant disagreement.
I think it important to say no more than that.

I think it may even be an overtranslation to say she was called to court or called to appear. That is not what is said. The information is simply that from 9 to 16 she was in and out of court. No more, no less.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2016-08-31 08:20:14 GMT)
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The only slightly unusual thing about the phrase is the choice of the term "cour" rather than "tribunal" which one might normally expect. Another familiar way of expressing it would have been to say "devant les juges". That would be an expression used by older individuals and in situations where they are called to appear for one reason or another. No, here, this is a younger individual, or an adult using very straightforward vocabulary describing the fact that she spent a lot of time in court from 9-16 y.o.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2016-08-31 08:43:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ah, can't make a reference post so here's an extract from a recently purchased book, on an extra point, the notion of "état limite", in reference to my note is the Discussion section.

Extract from the intro of Troubles de la personnalité borderline à l'adolescence by mutliple authors, under the aegis of Maurice CORCOS, Alexandra PHAM-SCOTTEZ and Mario SPERANZA. Ed. DUNOD, 2014.

Extract Introduction, p.1.:

"A l'heure où le terme "borderline" intègre l'édition 2013 di dictionnaire Le Robert, les recherches menées au sein deu Réseau Européen sur les troubles de la personnalité borderline (EURNET-BPD) que nous présentons dans ce livre ont été l'occasion de questionner la pertinence des termes "limite" et "borderline", et surtout de leur inter-interchangeabilité clinique et théorique. ces deux termes, dont la co-existence est une spécificité française, reflètent la double origine du concept, les psychanalystes utilisant initialement le terme "limite" et les autres cliniciens celui de "borderline". Cependant, ces deux termes sont devenus de plus en plus interchangeables en France, et sont aujourd'hui le plus souvent utilisés indifféremment ("limite" venant souvent représenter la traduction française de "borderline"). La clinique du Réseau Borderline nous invite à remettre en question cette interchangeabilité, et peut être à justifier l'arrivée officielle du terme anglo-saxon nouveau venu dans la laangue française."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2016-08-31 08:48:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The titel of the 1st chapter "Adolescents limites : Être ou ne pas être hors de soi..." is loaded with meaning for anyone with a French psychology degree, not least for the fact that it is written by Corcos.

This is extra info above and beyond what you have asked for in this questio here. I'm simply raising the point as it is extemely important for your translation. If you havenot studied French psychology then it is easy to overlook its fundamental significance in the context of what you are translating. In that, I refer to the notions of "traits de personnalité" , essential when referring to adolescents ; and also to the notion of "personnalité limite", again significant of itslef and all the more so within the context of young people.

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Note added at 11 hrs (2016-08-31 11:20:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This really is a matter of context again. the child may have been called in on occasion as a witness; but we don't know that for sure. Nothing in the source text suggests she was called as a party (i.e. defendant) in any way. This suggestion, and other possible ones too of course, should leave interpretation open, as in the French source text : called in as a witness and/or simply being there accompanying her parents. Being with the Juge aux affaires familiales, children can be asked for their opinion in a number of situations but care needs to be taken here. it would be a serious translation mistake to make if one were to suggest that this person had been in/out of court as an offender. Even if it were the case, but it is not at all suggested by the original.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2016-08-31 20:12:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Final word on this one : looking back at the French source text, the person simply reports "having been in court". She does not say why. We cannot assume anything about why she was there, except that there was some legal reason. We do know however that she did not remain in court for the 7 years between the age of 9 and 16 (!), which means she reports having been in and out of court during that period.
Selected response from:

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 05:53
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +6was in and out of court between the ages of 9 and 16
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
4 +2was regularly called into court/had to appear in court
Barbara Cochran, MFA
4(had) spent a lot of time in court between the ages of 9 and 16
Yvonne Gallagher
4 -3Having been at court/arrested at an early age.
M. El Kadimi


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -3
Having been at court/arrested at an early age.


Explanation:
Your guess appears to be correct. People with psychiatric disorders get into delinquency at an early stage, and therefore, may do things that will end them in court.
Let's wait for more suggestions

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Note added at 18 mins (2016-08-30 23:53:44 GMT)
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Or "appeared before a judge"

M. El Kadimi
Morocco
Local time: 04:53
Native speaker of: Native in ArabicArabic, Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Jean Lachaud: No. Look at the original sentence "à la cour de l'âge de 9 and jusqu'à 16 ans." This interpretation does not work.
1 hr
  -> Not really, it might mean "on several occasions from age 9 to age 16"

neutral  Jennifer White: text doesn't say she was arrested
7 hrs

disagree  writeaway: arrested is over-translation/guesswork. Not in the actual text
8 hrs

disagree  AllegroTrans: over-translation; nothing here about being arrested, these may have been care proceedings
16 hrs
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29 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
was regularly called into court/had to appear in court


Explanation:
Was what is called "a repeat juvenile offender".

Hope you find this helpful.

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Note added at 30 mins (2016-08-31 00:05:39 GMT)
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"had to appear in court regularly"

Barbara Cochran, MFA
United States
Local time: 23:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Antoinette S
1 hr
  -> Merci, Antoinette.

agree  Yolanda Broad
2 hrs
  -> Merci, Yolanda.

neutral  writeaway: regularly in and out of court. nothing in the source text indicates she was a juvenile offender. /with her parents? was she placed in care? Is it family court or criminal court? You are putting your own spin on this without knowing the facts
8 hrs
  -> In all likelihood she was a repeat offender. What other reason would a child have for being hauled into court all the time? Not to mention, people often break the law because of psychiatric issues. One hears about it almost everyday in the news.

neutral  Jennifer White: text doesn't say that she was called to court or had to appear
9 hrs
  -> People, like this child apparently, are ordered to appear in court.

neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Appearing in court already suggests the person was called and applies to parties and witnesses. There is strictly no indication she was a party, altho' in context, may have been a witness, but no indic. either. A conservative solution is required.
11 hrs

neutral  AllegroTrans: Well we simply don't know if these were juvenile offender hearings; they may for example have been care proceedings initiated by the Social Services;
16 hrs
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans
(had) spent a lot of time in court between the ages of 9 and 16


Explanation:
I think the answer has to be vague. We don't know exactly what the child was doing in court but presumably it was to do with her parents' disagreements as these caused her distress "Elle me rapporte une discorde constante et avoir été à la cour de l’âge de 9 ans jusqu’à 16 ans. Elle me décrira alors une certaine instabilité émotive chez ses parents..."

So, I think it best to stay well away from anything that implies she was arrested
and "in and out of court" suggests that she was "up in court", at least in my view.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 hrs (2016-08-31 12:27:38 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"in and out of court" definitely implies being involved in some other sort of case
https://www.google.ie/search?q="was in and out of court" mea...

Yvonne Gallagher
Ireland
Local time: 04:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 88

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: Yes, it has to be vague, non committal (haha). it is clear from the context tho' that there is no tongue-in-cheek meaning. Context makes it clear.//What I mean is that the context is clear that all she reports is having been in court, no more, no less.
2 hrs
  -> 1st meaning that comes to me for "in and out of court" is being personally involved in a case...The child could be called as a witness or to help decide on her custody or just be present. Context is NOT clear so we shouldn't make assumptions
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
avoir été à la cour de 9 jusqu'à 16 ans
was in and out of court between the ages of 9 and 16


Explanation:
I've expressed my suggestion in an extended section of the phrase.
No mention is being made of any arrest. It is about her having been in and out of court, or at least of having had that impression, during the span of years referred to.
It is in a section of the report where the patient describes her parents as being/having been in constant disagreement.
I think it important to say no more than that.

I think it may even be an overtranslation to say she was called to court or called to appear. That is not what is said. The information is simply that from 9 to 16 she was in and out of court. No more, no less.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-08-31 08:20:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The only slightly unusual thing about the phrase is the choice of the term "cour" rather than "tribunal" which one might normally expect. Another familiar way of expressing it would have been to say "devant les juges". That would be an expression used by older individuals and in situations where they are called to appear for one reason or another. No, here, this is a younger individual, or an adult using very straightforward vocabulary describing the fact that she spent a lot of time in court from 9-16 y.o.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2016-08-31 08:43:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Ah, can't make a reference post so here's an extract from a recently purchased book, on an extra point, the notion of "état limite", in reference to my note is the Discussion section.

Extract from the intro of Troubles de la personnalité borderline à l'adolescence by mutliple authors, under the aegis of Maurice CORCOS, Alexandra PHAM-SCOTTEZ and Mario SPERANZA. Ed. DUNOD, 2014.

Extract Introduction, p.1.:

"A l'heure où le terme "borderline" intègre l'édition 2013 di dictionnaire Le Robert, les recherches menées au sein deu Réseau Européen sur les troubles de la personnalité borderline (EURNET-BPD) que nous présentons dans ce livre ont été l'occasion de questionner la pertinence des termes "limite" et "borderline", et surtout de leur inter-interchangeabilité clinique et théorique. ces deux termes, dont la co-existence est une spécificité française, reflètent la double origine du concept, les psychanalystes utilisant initialement le terme "limite" et les autres cliniciens celui de "borderline". Cependant, ces deux termes sont devenus de plus en plus interchangeables en France, et sont aujourd'hui le plus souvent utilisés indifféremment ("limite" venant souvent représenter la traduction française de "borderline"). La clinique du Réseau Borderline nous invite à remettre en question cette interchangeabilité, et peut être à justifier l'arrivée officielle du terme anglo-saxon nouveau venu dans la laangue française."

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2016-08-31 08:48:57 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The titel of the 1st chapter "Adolescents limites : Être ou ne pas être hors de soi..." is loaded with meaning for anyone with a French psychology degree, not least for the fact that it is written by Corcos.

This is extra info above and beyond what you have asked for in this questio here. I'm simply raising the point as it is extemely important for your translation. If you havenot studied French psychology then it is easy to overlook its fundamental significance in the context of what you are translating. In that, I refer to the notions of "traits de personnalité" , essential when referring to adolescents ; and also to the notion of "personnalité limite", again significant of itslef and all the more so within the context of young people.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 hrs (2016-08-31 11:20:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This really is a matter of context again. the child may have been called in on occasion as a witness; but we don't know that for sure. Nothing in the source text suggests she was called as a party (i.e. defendant) in any way. This suggestion, and other possible ones too of course, should leave interpretation open, as in the French source text : called in as a witness and/or simply being there accompanying her parents. Being with the Juge aux affaires familiales, children can be asked for their opinion in a number of situations but care needs to be taken here. it would be a serious translation mistake to make if one were to suggest that this person had been in/out of court as an offender. Even if it were the case, but it is not at all suggested by the original.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2016-08-31 20:12:44 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Final word on this one : looking back at the French source text, the person simply reports "having been in court". She does not say why. We cannot assume anything about why she was there, except that there was some legal reason. We do know however that she did not remain in court for the 7 years between the age of 9 and 16 (!), which means she reports having been in and out of court during that period.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 05:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 119

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: yes, no more complicated than this. it's usually best to stick with the source text and not included presumptions or over-translate
2 mins

agree  Rachel Fell
43 mins

agree  Victoria Britten
57 mins

agree  Jennifer White: yes, and see my entry in the D box
1 hr
  -> Yes, the "avoir été" is a usage of "être" as a one-size-fits-all type solution where another verb wld be expected, often to replace "aller" or something similar.

agree  David Hayes
4 hrs

neutral  Yvonne Gallagher: I don't agree that this is clear but think it implies being involved in some sort of case
6 hrs
  -> Certainly, o/wise they wld not be in court. The point is, that the person does not say at this point why, but just reports "having been in court".

agree  AllegroTrans
8 hrs
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