rien n'est jamais gagné à l'avance

English translation: the race is never won until it's over

10:46 Jan 16, 2016

French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters / colloquial expression used in a govt/politics doc.

French term or phrase: rien n'est jamais gagné à l'avance

This appears in a quite formal document describing government policy and written by a senior political figure in a Francophone West African country. It reads to me as a deliberate change of register, and I've suggested "no game is won before it's played" but the proofreader would prefer a literal translation.

Any thoughts or alternative suggestions very welcome!

DLyons KudoZ activity Questions: 83 (none open) Answers: 4291 Ireland
Local time: 08:36

English translation:the race is never won until it's over

Explanation:
if you're looking for a fairly literal translation, this is a pretty close metaphor

Other variations can replace "race" with "match", "game", "battle", etc, etc

A few examples:

The race is never won until it's over. Out in the cold. Identity Crisis, I'm going through my Identity Crisis Identity Crisis, I'm going through my Identity Crisis    Identity Crisis - Sweet | Lyrics | AllMusic www.allmusic.com/song/identity-crisis-mt0003379113/lyrics

  4 Nov 2014 - “The lads have seen with some pain in recent weeks that a game is never won until it's over,” said Compton. “But that lesson has stood them in ...    A successful start for Safran | Safran Sailing Team www.safran-
sailingteam.com/media/20131107_successful-start-safran

  7 Nov 2013 - But an ocean race is never won until it's over. The first task that lies ahead is getting out of the English Channel in the best position possible, ...    Sweet - Identity Crisis lyrics - AllofLyric.com https://alloflyric.com/en/song/Sweet/Identity-Crisis-398340....

Selected response from:

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:36

Grading comment

Thanks Carol. See note above.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +7

the race is never won until it's over

Carol Gullidge

4 +5

nothing should be taken for granted

Daryo

3 +1

There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip

Louisa Tchaicha

cannot know what the future holds

Philippa Smith

It's not over till it's over

Robert Miki

nobody knows (or "can know") what the future holds in store

polyglot45

success/winning is never granted

Beatriz Ramírez de Haro

nothing is ever won in advance

Jonathan MacKerron

Discussion entries: 11

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

@all

21:21 Jan 18, 2016

Thanks for the excellent suggestions. I'm going to go with the majority view in one of two camps - the slightly metaphorical or the more literal one. Either are perfectly valid IMHO so I'm rather torn. But, mainly because this particular proofreader gave me a lot of grief, I'm choosing the suggestion closest to my own original one.

Nikki Scott-Despaigne

@David

17:21 Jan 17, 2016

I am 100% with Philippa here. The proofreader wants something more literal? I think that your suggestion of "no game is won before it's played" is already literal. I prefer Carol's version with "race" and "over". That works well in cotnext and is a standard rendering. Anything more literal would become a word for word translation and you'd be moving away from a natural result. Proffreaders often make good suggestions and improve a piece of writing. However, they don't have infused science either. I would look no further than Carol's suggestion and affirm that anything more literal would be unnatural.

Lara Barnett

United Kingdom

Agree with Philippa

11:42 Jan 16, 2016

I agree with Philippa. There is obviously no need to be over-creative here, but politicians use all sorts of metaphors and figures of speech when they talk. It is this sort of thing that adds to the beauty of the way some of them speak IMO. I don't believe it would be out of context to find a relevant metaphorical expression.

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

@Philippa

11:39 Jan 16, 2016

They start by describing their qualifications for being involved.
"Toutes ces expériences riches et variées m’ont beaucoup apporté. Mais comme rien n’est jamais gagné à l'avance, il faut continuellement se battre pour s’affirmer ... et continuer à initier des actions qui font la différence."

polyglot45

it's not really over

11:39 Jan 16, 2016

till the fat lady sings

Philippa Smith

11:33 Jan 16, 2016

The proofreader is indeed talking rubbish, why would you want something literal? What are the previous and following sentences? I've got another suggestion, but it depends on the immediate context...

Peter LEGUIE

Asker and pairs

11:13 Jan 16, 2016

I have also thought of "No issue is certain in advance" following a deeper reading of the full context;

Chakib Roula

Algeria

10:55 Jan 16, 2016

@Peter
Pretty relevant note.
Thanks

DLyons

Ireland

ASKER

@polyglot45

10:53 Jan 16, 2016

Good point!

Peter LEGUIE

Chakib

10:53 Jan 16, 2016

A very common expression in English is "granted" in which "in advance" is not really necessary (or possibly "to be taken for granted").

polyglot45

don't count your chickens....

10:51 Jan 16, 2016

before they're hatched.
There are no certainties in this life.
In political terms, I don't see the change of register - it's a thing politicians often say (and others). It implies that if their policies don't produce the goods, then it is not their fault but that of forces beyond their control.
PS - the proofreader is talking nonsense - your translation is almost too literal for me!
Nothing is written in advance - nobody knows what the future will hold

Answers

22 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

rien n'est jamais gagné à l\'avance There's many a slip twixt the cup and the lip

Explanation:
:)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/There's_many_a_slip_twixt_the_...

not sure if it fits the context though!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2016-01-16 11:11:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is no easy bet, or no easy feat..

Louisa Tchaicha
Tunisia
Local time: 08:36
Works in field
Native speaker of: English

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Louisa. Certainly works in some contexts.

37 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +7

rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance

the race is never won until it's over

Carol Gullidge
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 124

Grading comment

Thanks Carol. See note above.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Yvonne Gallagher

5 mins

-> thanks Gallagy!

agree

Lara Barnett

20 mins

-> thanks Lara!

agree

Louisa Tchaicha

38 mins

-> thanks Louisa!

agree

Victoria Britten

55 mins

-> thanks Victoria!

agree

James A. Walsh

2 hrs

-> Thanks James!

agree

Wendy Streitparth

3 hrs

-> Thanks Wendy!

neutral

Chakib Roula: Dear Carol, I have to give up the race as the game looks a bit lost in advance.

5 hrs

-> er, so what is your point, and how is it relevant to my suggestion in particular? Sorry if I appear a little obtuse…!

disagree

Daryo: this is not a literal translation - there is no "racing" in this ST // "gagner" is here a synonym for "réussir" / "atteindre son but" in implementing desired policies NOT for "winning a competition/race" [who would the State be competing against?]

7 hrs

-> Now who's being literal?!! You fail to take into account that I mentioned that the word "race" can be replaced by any number of other words to fit the situation. This is just a metaphor and metaphors are never meant to be taken absolutely literally

agree

Noni Gilbert Riley: Completely agree. Shame we can't the fat lady in though!

7 hrs

-> Thanks Noni! Yes, shame about the fat lady!

agree

Jean-Claude Gouin

8 hrs

-> thanks 1045!

1 hr confidence:

rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance cannot know what the future holds

Explanation:
A suggestion in the light of the context and tone of the entire sentence, which is quite personal (first person), it sounds like s/he is talking about his or her own experience of the initiatives in question
I read the meaning as: the initiatives/policies have been very productive, but there is no guarantee that they will carry on being so in the future, so we have to keep putting in lots of effort...

So you could use "since we cannot know what the future holds..." or "since one..." for a more formal style.

Alternative:
since nothing is set in concrete

Philippa Smith
Local time: 09:36
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 49

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Philippa. Clearly a possibility but I'm going to go with the majority view.

1 hr confidence:

rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance nobody knows (or "can know") what the future holds in store

Explanation:
with the added context, this is what I would say

polyglot45
Native speaker of:

English,

French
PRO pts in category: 227

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks polyglot45. Also, clearly a possibility and I totally agree with your comment above, but I'm going to go with the majority view.

2 hrs confidence:

rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance nothing is ever won in advance

Explanation:
garners the odd google

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 32

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Jonathan. Probably closest to my own original suggestion - so that can't be bad :-)

2 hrs confidence:

rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance It's not over till it's over

Explanation:
Amongst many other good options...

Robert Miki
Cameroon
Local time: 08:36
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English,

French

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Robert. That's a good phrase that I wouldn't have thought of but I'm going to go with the majority view.

7 hrs confidence:

rien n\'est jamais gagné à l\'avance success/winning is never granted

Explanation:
I disagree with your proofreader, but something simple along these lines might help.

Beatriz Ramírez de Haro
Spain
Local time: 09:36
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

Spanish
PRO pts in category: 4

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Beatriz. A nice suggestion that even a rather eccentric proofreader could hardly disagree with.

7 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

nothing should be taken for granted

Explanation:
one more variant ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-01-16 18:48:27 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

nothing should be ever taken for granted

IOW however you think your policies are the best, don't presume that you will be able to implement them exactly as you want without facing any obstacles or having to make serious efforts

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2016-01-16 18:51:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

or closer to the ST:

success shouldn't be taken for granted

Daryo
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:36
Works in field
Native speaker of:

Serbian,

French
PRO pts in category: 105

Notes to answerer

Asker: Thanks Daryo. See note above.

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rien n'est jamais gagné à l'avance

English translation: the race is never won until it's over

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English translation: the race is never won until it's over

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