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Spanish to English translations [PRO] Marketing - Food & Drink / New fruit variety
Spanish term or phrase:“paciencia de chinos”
SPAIN. Another relatively idle query. I wonder how fellow translators would approach this term, which might be considered politically incorrect or even offensive in some quarters. I considered "the patience of Job", but then the Oriental angle would be "lost in translation"...
"La empresa … comienza el año 2016 con el lanzamiento de dos nuevas (fruit varieties)... La primera se llama XXXX que, con una gráfica de cuidada factura oriental, comunica toda la tradición, delicadeza, mimo y “paciencia de chinos” que se debe tener para lograr (type of fruit) en perfecto estado. "
Explanation: I can't see any advantage in reproducing the reference, which is not idiomatic in English anyway, quite apart from the PC angle. The patience of Job is a set phrase but I don't think it's suitable, because it implies withstanding endless misfortune and suffering. Admittedly something is "lost in translation" by simply discarding the set phrase but nothing of any real importance or value, in my opinion.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 mins (2016-01-05 11:50:50 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The thing is, as I say, that the idiomatic expressions that spring to mind in English, as with Job, tend to be used to convey the idea of bearing up in highly trying and exasperating circumstances. I don't think there's any such suggestion in the original and that introducing it is undesirable. I don't think you want to suggest that growing melons is an activity that would drive ordinary people crazy; it's just that you need to be very patient.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 25 mins (2016-01-05 11:56:26 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I suppose that if you really want to keep the oriental allusion, to pick up on "cuidada factura oriental" but without repeating "oriental", you could say "the patience of Buddha" or "the patience of a Zen master", but it would be a bit forced really. I'd discard it.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 36 mins (2016-01-05 12:07:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Hang on a minute, Neil: what are we doing here? Are we trying to guess what you've already thought of and are not going to change, or are we putting forward suggestions for you to consider and possibly adopt if you find them convincing? If it's the former, please say so in advance, because that's a game I'm not interested in playing.
I think "Chinese patience" sounds pretty strange, personally, but there you go.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2016-01-05 16:57:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Neil; reading back I came across as more hoity-toity than I intended. It's just that when I read your note it sounded as though there was a predetermined "right" answer, which didn't seem fair to me. I don't think there's anything wrong with a light-hearted query like this, provided the result is not decided in advance, because otherwise it seems like a waste of time. But please don't feel you're being got at! Pax :)
Thanks to everyone for the help and comments. A special mention to Wendy for "conveys", which I probably wouldn't have come up with myself ... 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
I must admit I'm not Noah Webster's biggest fan at the best of times, but my nominal use of "painstaking" on this occasion (I'm still considering using it) is pecatta minuta compared to most of the howlers in the texts from this particular client, some of which come ready "translated" by sundry non-natives for revision and repair. I just hope I haven't broken any site rules by bringing up the PC question, which really does puzzle me. BTW I'm going for your "endless" suggestion, although James C's "zen-like" is tempting....
Merriam-Webster does appear to list this word as a noun. I find this very surprising and I'm sure I've never seen or heard it used as anything but an adjective. Other dictionaries I've checked all give it as an adjective.
Not only are standards on colloquial use of gender and racial/national stereotypes stricter in the UK than in Spain, in my experience (and probably stricter still in the US, I suspect), mainstream usage is becoming stricter in Spain, I would say, and expressions that used to be normal only a generation ago are much less so now.
I've just googled the name (which I'd better not mention here, just in case) of the melon variety in question, and all that appear are references to a rather buxom Bollywood starlet of the same name, and nothing remotely Chinese. I think at the end of the day I'll probably play it safe with Charles' suggestion "endless"...
I’m also interested in the difference in the notions of political correctness between Spain and the UK, as, for example, some TV advertising that I’ve seen in Spain would definitely not pass muster back home. And expressions like “trabajar como chinos /merienda de negros / hacer(se) el sueco” are quite common in Spain…
Merriam-Webster definition of painstaking : the action of taking pains : diligent care and effort. So, apparently it can be used as a noun, although it's most often seen as an adjective/adverb.
Lighten up guys! I already stated it was an idle query. I just wanted to see what fellow prozians thought. I'm taking everyone's suggestions on board and won't be sending the translation off until later this week. As it happens, I’ve just returned from two weeks away, where I’ve been able to brainstorm family and friends on things like this, and am now working on my own again at least until next week. I suppose I’m just missing being able to bounce off people, and thought I’d made it quite clear that this, and my previous posting, were to be taken lightheartedly and nothing to get po-faced or stroppy about. Please feel free not to contribute or comment if you think my queries unworthy. My membership subscription is up in 30 days and given the reception I’m getting today, I don’t know if it will be worth paying for another year. Heigh ho…
In North America, "Oriental," at least as referring to individuals or food, is considered offensive by many Asians, as they prefer to be called. (And yes, I know that Asia is a very wide net, but there you have it.
Explanation: This way you can maintain the use of an idiom without offending anyone.
Thomas Edmond Mosley Spain Local time: 09:52 Works in field Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: Well, I'd considered "the patience of Job", but then the Oriental angle would be "lost in translation"... I've actually decided on my own solution, but thought it'd be interesting to brainstorm you guys.
... so maybe just be happy with a reasonable facsimile you can make in your house, without a centuries-old recipe and the patience of Confucius. https://thechefsprerogative.wordpress.com/
Wendy Streitparth Germany Local time: 09:52 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 12
Notes to answerer
Asker: I don't agree with Phil - I see this as a thinly-veiled euphemistic ethnic reference, although I do like it. I might pinch your "convey" suggestion too ;)
Asker: PS: So far, I'm torn between endless and Confucian...
Explanation: I can't see any advantage in reproducing the reference, which is not idiomatic in English anyway, quite apart from the PC angle. The patience of Job is a set phrase but I don't think it's suitable, because it implies withstanding endless misfortune and suffering. Admittedly something is "lost in translation" by simply discarding the set phrase but nothing of any real importance or value, in my opinion.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 19 mins (2016-01-05 11:50:50 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
The thing is, as I say, that the idiomatic expressions that spring to mind in English, as with Job, tend to be used to convey the idea of bearing up in highly trying and exasperating circumstances. I don't think there's any such suggestion in the original and that introducing it is undesirable. I don't think you want to suggest that growing melons is an activity that would drive ordinary people crazy; it's just that you need to be very patient.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 25 mins (2016-01-05 11:56:26 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I suppose that if you really want to keep the oriental allusion, to pick up on "cuidada factura oriental" but without repeating "oriental", you could say "the patience of Buddha" or "the patience of a Zen master", but it would be a bit forced really. I'd discard it.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 36 mins (2016-01-05 12:07:12 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Hang on a minute, Neil: what are we doing here? Are we trying to guess what you've already thought of and are not going to change, or are we putting forward suggestions for you to consider and possibly adopt if you find them convincing? If it's the former, please say so in advance, because that's a game I'm not interested in playing.
I think "Chinese patience" sounds pretty strange, personally, but there you go.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2016-01-05 16:57:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Sorry, Neil; reading back I came across as more hoity-toity than I intended. It's just that when I read your note it sounded as though there was a predetermined "right" answer, which didn't seem fair to me. I don't think there's anything wrong with a light-hearted query like this, provided the result is not decided in advance, because otherwise it seems like a waste of time. But please don't feel you're being got at! Pax :)
Charles Davis Spain Local time: 09:52 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 103
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for the help and comments. A special mention to Wendy for "conveys", which I probably wouldn't have come up with myself ...
Notes to answerer
Asker: I wasn't going to reveal my solution until later, but here goes. (I know it's a card game, but hey! I think it works).
Asker: "... is called Xxx, which, with a carefully designed oriental logo, communicates all the tradition, delicacy, painstaking and “Chinese patience” needed to achieve the perfect Galia melon."
peer agreement (net): +1
