commercialisé en ville

English translation: sold on the public market

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	commercialisé en ville
English translation:	sold on the public market
Entered by:	Laura Hastings-Brownstein

20:54 Mar 16, 2015

French to English translations [PRO]
Marketing - Medical (general) / in a lawsuit for Abusive Tactics of a Pharmaceutical Company

French term or phrase: commercialisé en ville

I have not been able to find a proper English translation for this term. I feel there are many possibilities and would appreciate any help you might be able to give me to help narrow the possibilities down.

The term is used to describe the type of marketing of a drug allowed for this pharmaceutical company. Here is some context:

« Article 1er : Il est établi que les sociétés XXXX France, en tant qu’auteur de la pratique, et YYYY, en sa qualité de société mère de XXXX France, ont enfreint les dispositions de l'article L. 420-2 du code de commerce ainsi que celles de l’article 102 du traité sur le fonctionnement de l’Union européenne, en mettant en oeuvre une pratique de dénigrement des génériques concurrents de (Brandname Drug) sur le marché français du (Generic Drug) **commercialisé en ville**.

Considérant qu'après avoir retenu que le marché pertinent était le marché français du (Brandname Drug) et ses génériques) commercialisé en ville et que la société XXXX s'y trouvait en position dominante, ...

Considérant qu’il n'est pas discuté que le marché pertinent est celui du (Generic Drug) **commercialisé en ville** sur le territoire français, ni que la société XXXX ait été. jusqu'à l'entrée des génériques sur ce marché au mois d’octobre 2009, ...

... que ces parts démontrent qu'au moment de l'ouverture à la concurrence du marché du (Generic Drug) **commercialisé en ville**, la société XXXX est demeurée un opérateur puissant face à une concurrence particulièrement atomisée ;

Thanks very much in advance!

Laura

Laura Hastings-Brownstein KudoZ activity Questions: 405 (none open) (5 without valid answers) (15 closed without grading) Answers: 92
Local time: 11:38

sold in the general practice market

Explanation:
I'm not convinced this is the best term (still less the dedicated specialist term), but I do think it could be used in the register of your document.

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Note added at 40 minutes (2015-03-16 21:34:52 GMT)
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To answer W/A's perfectly valid point, with the problem being that we have only one half of the situation and hence can't draw the comparison "vs. what?", maybe 'retail market' would work better — at least, it covers the idea of 'available from chemist's', though I fear could also confuse the issue by suggesting the possibility of 'over-the-counter medicines'.

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Note added at 42 minutes (2015-03-16 21:36:25 GMT)
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But that's all part of the very specific mechanism of the French re-imbursement-based healthcare system, which has no direct parallel in th UK or US(?).

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Note added at 9 heures (2015-03-17 06:36:38 GMT)
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Of course, the medical sales reps doing this selling will be targeting GPs and other independent practitioners in their marketing efforts, in order to get them to prescribe THEIR drug in preference to the generic one.

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Note added at 2 jours56 minutes (2015-03-18 21:50:49 GMT) Post-grading
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I understand the solution you have chosen, but would advocate caution in aplying this in all contexts; the problem is, in EN, 'public' tends to oppose 'private' — and in the specific case of healthcare, we do also in France have 'dans le public / le privé'; now this is of course not the specific distinction bein made here; as if there were two kinds of drugs, ones for ordinary 'public' patients, and special ones for 'private' patients. This could be particularly ambiguous in your specific instance, tending to imply that 'generic' drugs were only suitable for the 'poor' people in the public sector, as against the more expensive branded drigs for the rich private patients!

Selected response from:

Tony M
France
Local time: 20:38

Grading comment

Thanks!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

3 +3

available at any High Street chemist/pharmacy

Jennifer Levey

commercial hub

tanglsus

4 -1

over the counter

Francois Boye

sold in the general practice market

Tony M

Summary of reference entries provided

hint

writeaway

Hint?

Ana Vozone

Discussion entries: 7

Daryo

United Kingdom

there was a similar question months ago

06:06 Mar 17, 2015

and as far as I remember the point of "en ville" is that the medicine is simply not sold to/through a hospital, nothing more or less.
Could be sold in a supermarket if no prescription is required, could be sold anywhere - not necessarily in a high street nor even in a town (could be a rural pharmacy).

Laura Hastings-Brownstein

ASKER

@ Tony M

21:48 Mar 16, 2015

Oh, just reading your comments on your suggestion. Maybe what it ought to be is just "on the public market". I see the problem is that it is referencing the French system which will be unknown (I imagine) to the client. Thanks so much. These discussions really help with these little details.

Laura Hastings-Brownstein

ASKER

@Tony M

21:16 Mar 16, 2015

How would you feel about "general practice market"? If you like it, please suggest it so I can award you the points. I think this is what I will use, unless someone comes up with a specific English translation for the term.

Laura Hastings-Brownstein

ASKER

@Tony M

21:13 Mar 16, 2015

Yes, that's good, Tony. That's the sort of thing I am looking for is discussion as to what would be good if there isn't a common English term, which I am beginning to think there isn't. I think it is probably a concept local to France or Europe, but not to the USA.

Tony M

France

'en ville'

21:10 Mar 16, 2015

My understanding here would be 'in general practice', i.e. as distinct from the kind of drugs only available through / used by a hospital — in other words, the sort of drugs you might be prescribed by your GP and get from the pharmacy.
However, I can't offhand think of a special term used for that in EN.

Oh I see! No, it's not really literally 'in towns' (though that may be part of it); it's more about 'in the community' versus 'within the world of hospitals'. Cf. médecine de ville = (roughly) general practice, and other usages such as 'tenue de ville' = 'street / smart / business dress' or more specifically 'lounge suite'. Other similar uses include 'imprimerie de ville' = 'jobbing printer', and cf. the notion in the UK of 'the High Street banks' (very much not 'the City banks'!).

Laura Hastings-Brownstein

ASKER

@Tony M

21:09 Mar 16, 2015

The possibilities I have thought of are just literal type translations, such as "marketed in cities", "city marketing", and the like. I was hoping there might be a term which is used in English that is not necessarily literal, but is used in common practice. Of course, that may not be available. Hence, I have come to this forum for any ideas.

Tony M

France

@ Asker

21:06 Mar 16, 2015

It might help us to help you if you were to tell us what you consider to be the "many possibilities", and your feelings about each of them, as applicable.

Answers

35 mins confidence:

commercial hub

Explanation:
please see the link below for definition:
A commercial hub is referred to as the commercial focal point of a city, nation, or the region. As a commercial hub, it is expected to provide with the best of commercial facilities, act as a transit point and facilitate and enhance trade and commerce. All countries around the world have respective commercial hubs that help them to promote trade and cooperation amongst them selves as well as among the local people and commercial establishments

Reference: http://www.hubs.in/commercial/

tanglsus
United States
Local time: 14:38
Native speaker of:

Chinese

30 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

available at any High Street chemist/pharmacy

Explanation:
The ST appears to refer to products are available at any High Street chemist or pharmacy.

But Asker has hinted in the discussion box that she needs something for the US. Does the US have 'High Streets', in the same way we have them in ther UK?

Branded and generic medicines - NetDoctor.co.uk
www.netdoctor.co.uk/medicines/brand_generic.htm
Jun 28, 2013 - They may be marketed either as generic sildenafil tablets, or under a ... All high-street pharmacists are obliged by law to dispense whatever the ...

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Note added at 31 mins (2015-03-16 21:25:57 GMT)
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More of the same (but different...):

Consuming Issues: Which chemist is cheapest: high street ...
www.independent.co.uk › Money › Spend & Save
May 8, 2010 - Boots came in the middle of both online and high street-shops. ... was justified because they had been designed, tested and sold in the UK.
Quality Issues in Clinical Genetic Services
https://books.google.cl/books?isbn=9048139198
Ulf Kristoffersson, ‎Jörg Schmidtke, ‎J. J. Cassiman - 2010 - ‎Medical
Marketed? ... 1), which may be another company's website; an alternative healthcare provider; a sports centre, pharmacy or other high street store; or a private ...
Narcomania: A Journey Through Britain's Drug World
https://books.google.cl/books?isbn=1448136490
Max Daly, ‎Steve Sampson - 2012 - ‎Social Science
All were available legally and were sold in grocers, chemists and by street ... 'By the 1890s high-street pharmacies had become places of wonder,' says Mike lay ...
Evidence-based Pharmacy - Page 70 - Google Books Result
https://books.google.cl/books?isbn=0853694362
Christine Bond - 2000 - ‎Medical
... what do they think about the role of the pharmacist in having a more interventionist paternalistic ... both based in medical premises and from the traditional high street base, the potential for ... GSL Ibuprofen product to be marketed this month.

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Note added at 1 hr (2015-03-16 21:57:02 GMT)
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Tony wrote (Note added under his answer at 40 minutes (2015-03-16 21:34:52 GMT)):

... at least, it covers the idea of 'available from chemist's', though I fear could also confuse the issue by suggesting the possibility of 'over-the-counter medicines'.

The simple answer to that 'problem' (if it is one...) is to include 'dispensing', as in:
available at any High Street dispensing chemist/pharmacy

That said, while we don't know what the drug is, and whether it is available 'under/over-the-counter' or only 'on prescription', this a a somewhat academic argument.

Jennifer Levey
Chile
Local time: 14:38
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

Notes to answerer

Asker: One thing to note, this is US English. Sorry I did not mention that before.

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

over the counter

Explanation:
This is the typical expression used by the medical profession in the US

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Over-the-counter_drug

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Note added at 3 hrs (2015-03-17 00:28:12 GMT)
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over the counter = available in any pharmacy to all without medical prescription

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 14:38
Native speaker of:

French
PRO pts in category: 13

Notes to answerer

Asker: No, this is not correct. Over the counter drugs are drugs sold without a prescription and this drug is sold only with prescription. I did not reveal the name of the medication in my excerpt for privacy reasons, but it is not an over the counter (OTC) drug. Thanks!

33 mins confidence:

sold in the general practice market

Tony M
France
Local time: 20:38
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 192

Grading comment

Thanks!

Notes to answerer

Asker: Hi Tony, Thanks! I am going to make this "on the public market" as I think that communicates the fact that it is not only sold to hospitals and other official institutions.

Asker: I don't think there is a good translation as the reference only pertains to the French system and has no equivalent in the US. I will explain this to the client so that they can be aware of the situation. Thanks very much for clarifying this point.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

neutral

writeaway: it's about being available in pharmacies/chemists (drugs stores in USAese) or in a hospital environment (as you said). I don't really like the 'general practice market'./it's just the diff between meds for hospitals only or for retail chemists

3 mins

-> Quite agree, but I think it's the only short way to express the difference, given that we can't write a long explanation; OK, it will also include non-hospital specialists; but the FR health reimbursement scheme is too complex to explain here!

neutral

Jennifer Levey: If you googlify "general practice market" you'll discover that it refers consistently to people vying to provide services as general practitioners (i.e., family doctors, etc.). Not a good choice in Asker's context.

21 mins

-> As we are all agreed, it is difficult to find one concise term in EN; but I think a variant of this could usefully be worked into Asker's context, perhaps avoiding that precise phrasing.

Reference comments

33 mins peer agreement (net): +3

Reference: hint

Reference information:
<bL>e choix du lieu de mise sur le marché est également lié au fait qu'il existe une autre chaînede détermination, qui lie le lieu de dispensation
à deux types distincts de prise en charge. Lors qu'il est consommé à l'hôpital, le médicament est pris en charge par la dotation globale hospit
alière, tandis qu'en ville, il est remboursé par les caisses d'assurance maladie (8). Ces deux régimes ont leurs inconvénients. À l'hôpital,
l'évolution de la dotation globale hospitalière est encadrée par un taux directeur limitatif et les budgets consacrés au médicament sont d'autant
plus contraints que les deux tiers des dépenseshospitalières sont absorbés par les charges de personnels. En ville, le prix du médicament est
fixé par les pouvoirs publics.

Part of a PDF. Now I can't find the url........

writeaway
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

2 hrs

Reference: Hint?

Reference information:
http://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/press/news/_layouts/forms/News_...

Ana Vozone
Native speaker of:

Portuguese
PRO pts in category: 15

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English translation: sold on the public market

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