agents non titulaires de droit public

English translation: contractual employee working under a public law contract

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:agents non titulaires de droit public
English translation:contractual employee working under a public law contract
Entered by: Bashiqa

13:25 Feb 4, 2015
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Human Resources / Hospital employment contract
French term or phrase: agents non titulaires de droit public
Context:
relatif au cumul d'activités des fonctionnaires, des agents non titulaires de droit public et des ouvriers des établissements industriels de l'Etat).

Your input much appreciated.
TIA Chris.
Bashiqa
France
Local time: 08:47
contractual employee working under a public law contract
Explanation:
A "civil servant" is a "fonctionnaire".
A "contractual employee" distinguishes an individual who is employed by the State. Thereafter there are two possible types of contract : public law (the Asker's example) or private law. Both are "employees". A "fonctionnaire" would describe himself as such and not as an "employé".
A "fonctionnaire" who is "titularisé" has his job for life. In certain circumstances, an "agent" can obtain a "CDI" (contrat à durée déterminée) but he will never obtain a "titualirsation". That is impossible as it is the strict reserve of the "fonctionnarat".

I have lectured at uni in France with a "contrat non-titulaire de droit public". I have also worked as a classroom assistant under a "contrat de droit privé". In the former case, I received my pay from the Trésor public, my employer was the local education authority. In the second case, the school where I worked was my direct employer.

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Note added at 8 hrs (2015-02-04 21:53:45 GMT)
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http://media.education.gouv.fr/file/Guide_juridique/83/4/Gui...

By way of example, a source describing the different types of contract possible for the AVS working in schools.

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Note added at 19 hrs (2015-02-05 08:51:28 GMT)
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Chris : indeed! After 3 years teaching at uni and being paid half what I was due 5 months only after having started, I gave up. Working as an AVS, I was less well-paid, but more or less on time. It is all relative though, as working part-time for half a SMIC, paid 10 days late or a month late after the start of each CDD, well, that's really tough too! Glad when the last contract ended!
Selected response from:

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 08:47
Grading comment
Thank you Nikki.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3contractual employee working under a public law contract
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
3 +1non-established public employees subject to public law
Charles Davis
4non-tenured staffer of a public administration
Francois Boye
Summary of reference entries provided
Définition explicite
mchd
Alternative way to find out
writeaway

Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


57 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
non-established public employees subject to public law


Explanation:
I realise this is a bit clumsy but if we're going to be precise I don't see what we can cut from it. There may be a better approach that hasn't occurred to me.

I wrestled with a rather similar Spanish-English question a while back. Here it is if anyone's interested:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/spanish_to_english/certificates_di...

Non-titulaire or non-fonctionnaire, which I believe are synonymous, is non-established. See here, for example:

(b) Non-established work
The ILO questionnaire defines non-established staff as “persons employed on a contractual basis who do not have recognized official status as public servants”. [...]
The term “established” is defined by some countries more narrowly than in the ILO questionnaire. For example, in many countries (e.g. Austria, Belgium, France, Germany, Luxembourg, Spain) established civil servants are appointed for life after an initial probation period: their legal status is defined by a special public law governing civil servants [...].
These established civil servants are referred to as “tenured”, “titularized” or “statutory” public servants, as opposed to non-established staff who have a status as contractual employees of the State. This distinction highlights a difference in legal treatment: established civil servants are governed by a special public law and by special disciplinary or administrative procedures whereas contractual employees of the State are subject to the provisions of labour law, often in the form of a Labour Code, applicable to the private sector.”
International Labour Office, Geneva, Terms and conditions of employment of part-time and temporary workers in the public service, pág. 5.
http://books.google.es/books?id=J8s7sW6SMqYC&pg=PA5&lpg=PA5&...

I think we have to say public employees for agents. "Civil servants" or "public servants" would arguably be applicable, but these terms are commonly equated with fonctionnaires (that is, fonctionnaire is commonly translated as civil servant) so I think it could cause confusion.

But since there are two kinds of agents non-titulaires (see references already provided by colleagues), I don't think you can omit "subject to public law". This is a distinction that doesn't apply in Spain, for example, where, to my knowledge, all non-established public employees are subject to ordinary employment law. These "droit public" ones seem to be a special category, halfway between contract staff and established staff.

But I'm only going to give his confidence 3 because I'm venturing a little outside my comfort zone.



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Note added at 1 hr (2015-02-04 14:25:54 GMT)
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I've just seen the reference to the previous question. It seems to me that "agents non-titulaires de droit privé" are also non-established (or non-tenured) public employees, so this expression alone is not specific enough. The "droit public" refers not to the fact that you work for the state but to the legal regime governing your employment, which is a different issue.

Charles Davis
Spain
Local time: 08:47
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  B D Finch: non-established officers ... A non-established officer is an officer in a post that is not included in the employing authority's establishment of approved posts.
39 mins
  -> Thanks, Barbara. That seems to fit.

neutral  writeaway: afaik, it just means they don't have official civil servant status. /imo a fonctionnaire de droit publique is a civil servant; de droit privé is an official/employee working under a (private law) employment contract. See the 1st ref I posted.
2 hrs
  -> "Agents non-titulaires" does of course mean that, but consider why some are "de droit public" and others are "de droit privé" // Exactly, and this is a non-fonctionnaire employee working under a public law employment contract: 2 types of non-fonctionnaire
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
non-tenured staffer of a public administration


Explanation:
Unlike the ILO, the US government uses the concept of tenured staff to identify civil servants who passed their probationary year

http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/instituti...


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Note added at 1 hr (2015-02-04 15:17:47 GMT)
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The link defines what "un agent non titulaire de droit public" is all about

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Note added at 2 hrs (2015-02-04 15:37:40 GMT)
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Erratum: Please read "STAFFERS" instead of "staffer"

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Note added at 9 hrs (2015-02-04 23:10:25 GMT)
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http://cpol.army.mil/library/permiss/6a31.html

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Note added at 9 hrs (2015-02-04 23:11:24 GMT)
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http://cpol.army.mil/library/permiss/6a31.html

Francois Boye
United States
Local time: 02:47
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 39

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  writeaway: tenure(d) is usually used with reference to university professors. /your ref refers to the US military, which has its own very special terminology. It has nothing to do with the current context.
2 hrs
  -> not in the US. See the link// No, you are wrong! The concept of tenure groups comes from the Office of Personnel and Management (OPM), which is in charge of standardizing hiring and firing practices across the USG agencies.
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
contractual employee working under a public law contract


Explanation:
A "civil servant" is a "fonctionnaire".
A "contractual employee" distinguishes an individual who is employed by the State. Thereafter there are two possible types of contract : public law (the Asker's example) or private law. Both are "employees". A "fonctionnaire" would describe himself as such and not as an "employé".
A "fonctionnaire" who is "titularisé" has his job for life. In certain circumstances, an "agent" can obtain a "CDI" (contrat à durée déterminée) but he will never obtain a "titualirsation". That is impossible as it is the strict reserve of the "fonctionnarat".

I have lectured at uni in France with a "contrat non-titulaire de droit public". I have also worked as a classroom assistant under a "contrat de droit privé". In the former case, I received my pay from the Trésor public, my employer was the local education authority. In the second case, the school where I worked was my direct employer.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 8 hrs (2015-02-04 21:53:45 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://media.education.gouv.fr/file/Guide_juridique/83/4/Gui...

By way of example, a source describing the different types of contract possible for the AVS working in schools.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 19 hrs (2015-02-05 08:51:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Chris : indeed! After 3 years teaching at uni and being paid half what I was due 5 months only after having started, I gave up. Working as an AVS, I was less well-paid, but more or less on time. It is all relative though, as working part-time for half a SMIC, paid 10 days late or a month late after the start of each CDD, well, that's really tough too! Glad when the last contract ended!

Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 08:47
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 44
Grading comment
Thank you Nikki.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you Nikki. You'll know exactly how my wife felt. Might add she gets far more enjoyment teaching via the internet with students as far away as Russia and Brazil.

Asker: Has to be said that l'Education Nationale are dishonest. After 7 years wife was told no longer needed as they had 'assez des prof habilité', then 1 month later advertised for teachers. After 7 years they were obliged to offer a CDI at correct rate of pay, but easier and cheaper to refuse to renew contract.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  mchd
23 mins

agree  Daryo
2 hrs

agree  Yvonne Gallagher
2 hrs
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Reference comments


10 mins peer agreement (net): +2
Reference: Définition explicite

Reference information:
http://www.vie-publique.fr/decouverte-institutions/instituti...

mchd
France
Works in field
Native speaker of: French
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  writeaway: yes, all the necessary information is easily findable.
1 min
  -> merci
agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne: This source provides all the explanation requried. It is odd when you are not familiar with it!
8 hrs
  -> merci également, j'allais également proposer comme autre explication : agent contractuel/non contractuel, mais vous avez particulièrement bien appréhendé cette différence ! Oui, je le concède ! C'est la bureaucratie française !
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9 mins
Reference: Alternative way to find out

Reference information:
Les agents non-titulaires

Définition

Les agents non titulaires sont des agents publics non fonctionnaires. Leur recrutement est direct et n'emprunte pas la voie du concours.

L'engagement des agents non titulaires de droit public n'entraine pas leur titularisation, sauf disposition expresse. Le système de la carrière ne s'applique donc pas à ces personnels.
http://www.cdg59.fr/carrieres/les-agents-non-titulaires.html

L’article 3 de la loi n°83-634 du 13 juillet 1983 modifiée portant droits et obligations des fonction-naires pose le principe du recrutement de fonctionnaires pour occuper les emplois publics permanents. Des règles dérogatoires permettent cependant le recrutement d'agents non titulaires de la fonction publique terri-toriale.
 L'agent non titulaire de droit public n'est pas un fonctionnaire : son recrutement n'entraine pas sa titularisation (sauf disposition expresse), il ne devient pas propriétaire d'un grade.
 L'agent non titulaire de droit public n'est pas un agent de droit privé : il se voit appliquer une partie des règles statutaires et le décret du 15 février 1988 précité et non le code du travail. Les seuls agents de droit privé dont l'employeur est une personne publique sont ceux qui exercent leurs fonctions dans le cadre d'un Service Public Industriel et Commercial (services de gestion de l'eau ou des déchets...), ou bien ceux qui, bien que travaillant dans le cadre d'un Service Public Administratif, sont expressément soumis par la loi au code du travail (contrat d’apprentissage, Contrat d'Accompagnement dans l’Emploi).
 L'agent non titulaire de droit public n'est pas un vacataire : un vacataire effectue des taches qui ne correspondent pas à un besoin permanent, permettant ainsi la réalisation d'actions spécifiques correspondant à un besoin ponctuel et il est rémunéré à l'acte.
Le recrutement des agents non titulaires de droit public
www.cdg-64.fr/.../Agents_non_tit_Le_recrutement.pd...



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Note added at 11 mins (2015-02-04 13:36:22 GMT)
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The last url doesn't work. You have to click on the original www listing and the PDF will download

writeaway
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 59
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