Rams

00:25 May 20, 2014 

why don't you post your suggestion (próceres), and let's see what the community says. Thank you!

00:24 May 20, 2014 

And that happens to be the text I'm translating to Portuguese, probably to some affiliate of the Alamo Ministries in Brazil. The most common word in PT for the rams, in biblical equivalence, would be "cordeiros" instead of "carneiros". But I still think it has a sense of leaders, which the sheep wouldn't reflect. I could use BV1's suggestion (próceres), since it does mean leaders, both of men and sheep.

12:02 May 19, 2014 

I honestly don't know whether my answer is suitable in your specific context, however in nearly all biblical references the sheep/goat/ram are used as metaphors for humans (in a "forma generalista"), undoubtedly because the sheep/ram/goat were the first domesticated species there are many references in English from "to butt horns" to welcome to the "fold" and like a "lamb" to the slaughter etc. maybe ask the author what he thinks? I am only saying this as there seems to be quite a lot of comments regarding the best answer (which at the end of the day is the client's choice)
Cheers
Nick

08:29 May 19, 2014 

!leaders" follows, that is why Alamo uses the metaphor "rams" in that fanciful pseudo biblical way. IMHO

The difference between believing in CHRIST and believing in religion is that in believing in CHRIST, it is GOD who seeks man. In other words, it is GOD who has sought man and still seeks man. GOD communicated first to Adam, Cain, Seth, Enoch, Noah, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the Old Testament. In the New Testament, HE communicated first to Matthew, John, and the Apostle Paul. In 1964, HE communicated to me, and there were many others in between Biblical times and now. In other words, GOD has sought all the rams, the leaders of HIS family, sending them to seek out the sheep that in the future will be the final saved ones, those who will spend eternity in the Kingdom of Heaven with GOD the FATHER, CHRIST, HIS first begotten SON, and the HOLY SPIRIT.

00:28 May 19, 2014 

Um prócer é um "indivíduo importante, influente, cuja opinião é acatada; chefe, líder, magnata, potentado (freq. empr. no pl.)" (Houaiss). Da mesma ref. temos também "maioral: s.de pdois gen.. : ...2. Derivação: por extensão de sentido.: aquele a quem outros estão subordinados; chefe, cabeça ... 5. em um rebanho, animal maior ou reprodutor" e outras acepções afins.

22:00 May 18, 2014 

apesar de não ser profunda conhecedora do assunto. Seria solução elegante, tendo em vista as suas restrições.

21:59 May 18, 2014 

O alfa é chamado de macho reprodutor ou carneiro reprodutor. Não encontrei um nome para ele.

21:56 May 18, 2014 

pois o texto fala claramente dos líderes, conforme frisado pelo Martin e por BV1. Talvez seja melhor usar "pastores" então, pois mais à frente no texto, ele diz que Deus se dirige aos pastores para guiá-los à salvação.

20:46 May 18, 2014 

Salmo 114:6

“O mountains, that you skip like rams?
O hills, like lambs?”
English Standard, http://biblehub.com/psalms/114-6.htm

“Montes, por que saltais como carneiros?
e vós, colinas, como cordeirinhos?
Bíblia Sagrada, Ed. Vozes, 45a. ed., 2001

Depois de um pouco mais de pesquisa, agora acho que talvez “chefes do rebanho” não seja uma boa escolha no contexto: na bíblia, Jeremias 25:34, a expressão é usada para designar os pastores, não os carneiros: “Gemei pastores e gritai” Revolvei-vos no pó, chefes do rebanho” Sim, chega para vós o dia da matança! Serei dispersados e caireis como vasos preciosos.”

16:44 May 18, 2014 

Yes, it is a metaphor for "leader", just as "sheep" is a metaphor for the faithful (humans) of the flock. This particular metaphor of "sheep" is very common in a biblical context. So, if you are going to talk about "sheep", you need to talk about the "ram", as it is the leader of the flock. "ram" (carneiro) is the sheepy equivalent of the words you supply below (cachaço, etc.).

16:02 May 18, 2014 

That's the idea. If they were talking about pigs (cachaço), horses (garanhão), bulls (touro) or even chicken (galo), we would know the word. But for sheep, I've no idea.

16:00 May 18, 2014 

According to that verse, the rams would be 'bodes'. However, the goats are associated to the masons and to the devil by the evangelics. The client might not like it if I use that word. And carneiros include all people, whereas the text uses "rams" as leaders. For the moment being, I used "chefes de família". But I'm only delivering this job on Tuesday, so we might get a better choice until then. Thank you.

15:31 May 18, 2014 

(Mateus 25:33).

14:53 May 18, 2014 

Acho que é esse o sentido. O carneiro não castrado, macho reprodutor, que guia e manda na "grei".

14:47 May 18, 2014 

Chefes de família pode ser uma solução. Poste aí, Teresa!

14:34 May 18, 2014 

http://www.tradutor24x7.com/ingles/portugues/
e
Definitions
noun: a person who rules or guides or inspires others
noun: a featured article of merchandise sold at a loss in order to draw customers
name: A surname (rare: 1 in 100000 families; popularity rank in the U.S.: #8278)
=======================
É possível que o "rams" de seu texto sejam aqueles chefes de família com esse nome: os RAMS.
Assim como os Capuletos e Montéquios...

14:26 May 18, 2014 

Chefes, Cabeças, Comandantes, Guias... acabei de achar outra referência, ma s preciso ler

14:19 May 18, 2014 

I figured it must be a synonym of leaders, not all the 'sheep'. Acho que a Teresa pegou o espírito da coisa. Mas não posso usar 'carneiros' ou 'rebanho', como sugere o Nick. Preciso de um sinônimo sucinto para o "macho alfa".

12:11 May 18, 2014 

os "machos", fortões, chefes de família com responsabilidade pela própria vida e pela vida dos seus entes.

12:09 May 18, 2014 

French To English - ram
n. Ram, male first name (Hebrew)
================
HTH

06:37 May 18, 2014 

given that they are sent "to seek out the sheep that in the future will be the final saved ones" - I guess it simply refers metaphorically to leaders - using the male sheep term of "ram".