This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
  1. KudoZ™ Top
  2. German to English
  3. Law (general)

Vortatsgeschehen

English translation: predicate activity

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Vortatsgeschehen
English translation:predicate activity
Entered by: Roger Matthews

12:14 Apr 25, 2014
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Legal judgement
German term or phrase: Vortatsgeschehen
This is a heading for in long-form judgement and describes the events preceding the alleged offence.

My first thought is "Preceding events".

But I see that "Vortat zur Geldwäscherei" is translated at "predicate offence(s) for money laundering", so am wondering if there is a use of "predicate" in this context too.

Thanks
Roger Matthews
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:33
predicate activity
Explanation:
I think this should work for a fraud case too.

A distinction must be drawn between the two types of knowledge implicated by the money laundering statute. While to sustain a conviction the defendant must have known that the primary predicate activity (in this case securities, mail and wire fraud) was unlawful, see United States v. Montoya, 945 F.2d 1068, 1076 (9th Cir.1991), he need not have known that the secondary act of laundering the proceeds was unlawful.
http://openjurist.org/37/f3d/1407/united-states-v-v-stein

Drafting Note:
A number of common law countries, for instance the United Kingdom and South Africa, make it clear in their legislation that benefits of criminal conduct include property obtained “in connection with” the
offense. Adding this phrase expands the concept of proceeds somewhat. It should, for in
stance, make it clear in the case of a stand-alone money laundering prosecution where there is no prosecution for the predicate offence that the funds being laundered which may be viewed primarily as proceeds of the
predicate activity are also considered proceeds of the money laundering offence.

https://www.imolin.org/pdf/imolin/Model_Provisions_Final.pdf
Selected response from:

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 15:33
Grading comment
Thanks again for the help!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +1predicate activity
Kim Metzger
3(AE & BE) background evidence
Adrian MM. (X)
Summary of reference entries provided
Question
Kim Metzger
Previous question (by Kim)
philgoddard

  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
predicate activity


Explanation:
I think this should work for a fraud case too.

A distinction must be drawn between the two types of knowledge implicated by the money laundering statute. While to sustain a conviction the defendant must have known that the primary predicate activity (in this case securities, mail and wire fraud) was unlawful, see United States v. Montoya, 945 F.2d 1068, 1076 (9th Cir.1991), he need not have known that the secondary act of laundering the proceeds was unlawful.
http://openjurist.org/37/f3d/1407/united-states-v-v-stein

Drafting Note:
A number of common law countries, for instance the United Kingdom and South Africa, make it clear in their legislation that benefits of criminal conduct include property obtained “in connection with” the
offense. Adding this phrase expands the concept of proceeds somewhat. It should, for in
stance, make it clear in the case of a stand-alone money laundering prosecution where there is no prosecution for the predicate offence that the funds being laundered which may be viewed primarily as proceeds of the
predicate activity are also considered proceeds of the money laundering offence.

https://www.imolin.org/pdf/imolin/Model_Provisions_Final.pdf


Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 15:33
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1244
Grading comment
Thanks again for the help!
Notes to answerer
Asker: Yes, I think you are right - I rejected the money laundering option too quickly without reading the full explanations! Thanks Kim and others for the quick responses.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  philgoddard
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
(AE & BE) background evidence


Explanation:
Not the same as SFE= similar fact evidence and could work for fraud or embezzlement.

See the unreported EN case of R. vs.Pettman (1985).


    Reference: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=BZ2yYTZYy3wC&pg=PA272&lpg...
Adrian MM. (X)
Local time: 23:33
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 790
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


24 mins
Reference: Question

Reference information:
What is the alleged offence in your case?

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 1244
Note to reference poster
Asker: It's fraud and/or embezzlement - so could possibly be analogous to money laundering?

Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: Previous question (by Kim)

Reference information:
The meaning of Vortat is discussed in detail here, with several good answers. It's a bit hard for us to suggest the right one for your context without seeing the text.


    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/german_to_english/law_patents/1888...
philgoddard
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 198

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  Kim Metzger: I would have used the "discussion box" but they banned me from it years ago.
4 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:
ProZ.com term search
Search millions of term translations
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search